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alejandro fernandez
Cinema Tools good and bad news
on Dec 1, 2010 at 3:00:02 pm

Hi

I'm working on a film since last March. The shooting is on S-16 and then transferred to an NTSC DVCPro50 29.97 file via telecine.
Since the shooting is divided in four seasons (winter, spring, summer, etc.) I received material in May, then August and now in November.
The first two times I did the reverse telecine on Cinema Tools and conform to 24 fps.

The result was a file that although play in a 24 fps timeline in FCP, was actually in 23.98. I have tried in the past to create a "real" 24 fps clip out of the telecine, but was not possible in FCP, so I had to slow down the sound on 0,1% in order to be on sync.

I had no problem with than workflow, since I used a nice little program in PC to alter the audio files from 48000 to 47952 and sync in Final Cut. Here is the link, just in case someone needs it.
http://www.24p.com/AvidInsider2.htm

I have used the same workflow in two films already, so I was used to that shortcoming on the part of Cinema Tools (not being able to create "real" 24 fps clips).

But to my surprise, after upgrading to Final 7.0.3, I conformed the new telecine to 24 fps and the result is now a "real" 24 fps clip, no more the 23.98 clip.

Since I have sync most of the film already, I think I will stick to the 23.98 clips and work in the way I have worked in the past, but since that means that at the end the sound (including music) should be speed up a little (0,1%) maybe I should consider working on new clips with "real" 24 fps and resync what I have synced already. Also in that way the lab will be more comfortable, since the last two times they were very apprehensive about working in 23.98 (they are a French lab and they worked in PAL and 24 fps "real")

Does anyone else noted that upgraded feature in Cinema Tools, and how good an idea is to work all the way in real 24 now that Cinema Toools allows it??

cheers
alejandro


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Bob Flood
Re: Cinema Tools good and bad news
on Dec 1, 2010 at 5:19:40 pm

Alejandro
I can tell you from experience that switching stuff around mid project like framerates and such is bound to cause you grief, heartache AND Downtime!

Stay the course, as it were, at 23.97/your current framerate to complete the project. Maybe when you are done and delivered, you can go back and change the elements used in the final film(s) only. Modern post houses can deal with the 23.97/24 stuff easy. but it all needs to be one speed

I am always tempted to go back and fix things in the workflow after the fact, and the few times i have had to it has not been fun, and is time consuming.

hope this helps

"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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alejandro fernandez
Re: Cinema Tools good and bad news
on Dec 1, 2010 at 11:13:12 pm

Thanks Bob

Yeah, I agree, and actually I decided to stay on 23,98. The decision was taken also because after trying to sync the sound to the 24 fps clips, I realize that although it seems to be "real" 24 fps, the sound slips out of sync, so I guess it's still 23,98 in disguise.

Saludos
alejandro


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Cinema Tools good and bad news
on Dec 2, 2010 at 8:42:23 am

First, CinemaTools always could alter the frame rate of any movie to 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 and 30 fps with conform feature. It doesn't add or remove fields and frames, just changes the playing frame rate. It is different from reverse telecine.

Second, your choice of 23.98 vs 24 in standard definition is dependent on the size of the frame of your footage. If it is 720x480 go 23.98. If it is 720x576 go 24. That's NTSC vs PAL. You can create 720x576@29.97 but it won't play on your broadcast monitor.

Since a couple of versions back it is better to cut film projects in FCP in PAL environment. As for you current situation, it is all about sound. At some point you'll have to go back to 48000 from 47952. The easiest way would be to do it at the end to the mixed tracks. The hardest way would be to send locked picture and OMF's to the sound editor and discover the odd sample rate causes problems.


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