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Diego Grande
Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 7:30:06 pm

Hello, all.

I work for a Mac-based production facility, and we use Final Cut Pro exclusively. However, it looks like our corporate owners may be considering switching us over to Edius. We feel FCP is the way to go and would like to stay with it.

Is there anyone out there who has experience with both FCP and Edius? Any feed back, good, bad or otherwise, would be greatly appreciated.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 8:30:59 pm

Hi Diego,
I haven't worked with Edius, but I know is a very good and solid application (GVG), although, for what I've heard, FC is better.
However Edius works only on PC, so is not just a change of software but platform.
Running away from FC I would go PP, no Edius.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Rocco Forte
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 8:42:51 pm

Fascinating. I thought I knew all the editing software out there, but just learned a new one!!

One of the benefits of using popular software, like FCP, is that when you stumble across a problem there's a massive user base online. So much so that you can just Google your error window or what-not and you'll find a solution within 10mins.

Also, if they need freelancers, the FCP talent pool is so huge when you make the call it'll be like opening sales day at Barneys. "Edius Freelancers"? Cut to: sound of crickets...


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Rafael Amador
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 9:16:03 pm

[Rocco Forte] "Fascinating. I thought I knew all the editing software out there, but just learned a new one!!"
Hi Rocco,
In our Mac world, we often miss what's going on the PC world.
I think that Adobe has rebuilt PP no just to fight back FC, but mostly because in the PC world, since a few years ago, was a huge migration to Edius.
The developers (Grass Valley) are no newcomers to this business.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Rocco Forte
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 9:31:25 pm

One day I'll pull my head out of the rock ;o)

I have heard good things about PP however; I'd be curious to go back to it after 10 years for sure...


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 8:53:06 pm

What types of jobs does your post house do currently? Broadcast? Films? What scale: Local? Network?

What rationale does the Home Office give for doing this?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 9:08:23 pm

[Diego Grande] "Is there anyone out there who has experience with both FCP and Edius? Any feed back, good, bad or otherwise, would be greatly appreciated."

I've used both. What Edius has going for it is mixed format/resolution/framerate editing in real-time. And I mean real real-time --as in NO rendering. If you routinely use multiple flavors of video on a single timeline, it is worth a look. I understand it is very popular in newsrooms because of its speed.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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Tom Matthies
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 9:57:27 pm

In a nutshell, good for News. Not so much for Production.
You're not working for a Young Broadcasting station are you? Last I heard is that was their plan-to install Edius systems company wide and dump whatever else was in use-mostly Final Cut/Mac systems.
If so, the production guys at the local Young station in this market are not very thrilled about loosing their Final Cut systems either. Decisions based on the bottom line are not always good decisions for those involved in the aftermath.

Faster! Better! Cheaper!
Pick any two.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Edius
on Nov 24, 2010 at 10:24:37 pm

For what I see in the GVG web site, with the correct hardware, becomes a powerful solution.
I think that people that used to work with " Aurora" will give some credit to this system.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Dixon Johnston
Re: Edius
on Feb 8, 2011 at 8:10:45 pm

Uh...yes, I work for Young Broadcasting. They want to replace my 2 older FCP 5 systems with Edius despite heavy resistance. I am, lets say "boiling". My team creates tons of client advertising, and we've developed a good reputation in the area for having solid production from script to screen. We effort about 35% of our stuff from scratch and graphics. No shooting-just stills, running footage and a ton of Motion and Boris Red comps. This is my biggest fear about a change over. What are compositing advantages and limitations of Edius? What kind of encouragement can anyone offer to help me wake from this nightmare?

Dixon Johnston
Creative Services Director-WRIC


Aquisition: P2 500, Beta SX & SP
Edit: FCP-AJA IO-SD-HD 720P


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Andy Mees
Re: Edius
on Feb 8, 2011 at 9:32:30 pm

Don't do it. Edius is an edit system only, has zero effective compositing capabilities. For editing it is absolutely fine, for compositing you'll need/want to use After Effects.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Edius
on Feb 8, 2011 at 9:53:23 pm

Ever work on a Media 100, perhaps about 10 years ago? An Edius geared for news has all the compositing, titling, and animation speed of one of those babies.

[Dixon Johnston] "What kind of encouragement can anyone offer to help me wake from this nightmare?"

In order to keep up the production values you currently maintain, the Edius systems alone won't cut it.

It's like using FCP 5 all alone: no Motion, no Livetype, no Soundtrack Pro. Rudimentary compositing abilities. I can't talk about the chroma keyer: it's Grass-Valley proprietary, and I've never used it. It's a Windows system, so there go all your Final Cut Suite project files.

So if the GM, Promotion Director and News Director like what you're currently doing, you can tell them that it will take about 6 months and about an extra $5500 per edit station to get back to where you are right now once those Edius machines go on line.

Why the extra cash and time? You'll need to get Adobe Production Premium CS5 and learn how to run Premiere Pro, After Effects and Soundbooth, have some cash in reserve for third-party (Boris?) plugins for AE, and you'll need time to learn how to run them.

"Hit 'em in the pocketbook and calendar" may not be the best words of encouragement, but that's the best I can offer. Heck, I'm in Market 80-something, and even our people get the difference between news cutting and video production.

The bean-counters and engineers at the home office may think all-Edius is a great idea, so you'll have to convince them there's a financial price to be paid for using them in a production environment.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dixon Johnston
Re: Edius
on Feb 8, 2011 at 10:12:44 pm

Thanks for the fuel for my corporate retort. Just before I pulled up the thread again, I was sending a list of add ons that they had not considered-including 2 Boris sets, 2 Adobe packages and Sorenson Squeeze licenses. Also 'in depth' training costs for After Effects and Edius. Well over $5500 per system. I did not consider the audio software.
The biggest expense will be the loss of regular clients who rely on our extensive familiarity of the systems we work with, and many of which are big $ car dealers who need fast turnarounds, and no technical fumbles. I can virtually guarantee a loss of revenue for production during the "gray period", and it wont be recovered. Even more importantly, the loss of 'airtime' revenue-when the station loses control of the production, we lose a key ingredient in the client/station relationship. Ive made this pitch, and will again, but it is not working. The typical response refers to "Total System Integration" between news, production, in/out servers. Which is BS. I dont need to be integrated with those systems as long as what I output looks good and gets on the air when it is supposed to.

and yes, the Media 100 analogy is good-We upgraded from M100 for a reason. I'll use that one.

Dixon Johnston
Creative Services Director-WRIC


Aquisition: P2 500, Beta SX & SP
Edit: FCP-AJA IO-SD-HD 720P


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Edius
on Feb 8, 2011 at 10:24:03 pm

Go get 'em, sir! You're right: it's not so much the extra money to get additional software just to do the job you currently do, it's the down-time for learning curves, and all it implies, that will really hurt the station.

If in this "total system integration" they make you go to some piece-of-crap camera like XDCam EX -- although Edius can work with much, much better codecs than that -- know that chroma keys from that footage look God-awful.

You did say you make a ton of car spots, after all.

The ONLY bright side: you'll have oodles of storage for your video.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Edius
on Feb 18, 2011 at 7:58:14 pm

I should also add that I recently heard that Grass Valley, makers of Edius, has been losing money for a few years, and that it's been purchased by some investment firm in the San Francisco area, I believe. The bankers feel they can make Grass Valley profitable again.

I wonder what investment bankers know about digital media and video engineering? A lot? A little? Nothing? And how will they go about making the company profitable again?

If you were at the helm of Young Broadcasting, would YOU feel confident in sinking your money to the tune of about 8 figures into a product whose future may be etched in Jello?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Diego Grande
Re: Edius
on Dec 3, 2010 at 3:01:10 pm

Thank you all very much for your input everyone! I'm afraid I can't go into too much more detail at this time, but everyone's posts have been most helpful, and I will be back if more questions arise.


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