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Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?

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Chris Babbitt
Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 9:13:38 pm

I have a 3-hour program that I want to fit on a single 25gb Blu-Ray. In order to do it, I will need to encode at 16.8 avg. data rate (MP2). Will that give me decent quality, or am I wasting my time? Dual layer is too expensive and Compressor won't do H.264 for BD.



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walter biscardi
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 9:28:37 pm

That's pretty low for sure. Would go for the DL BluRay quite honestly.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" Winner, Best Documentary, LA Reel Film Festival...

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Rafael Amador
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 10:21:14 pm

I agree with Walter.
For an H264 could be OK, but very low for MPEG-2.
On a HD MPEG-2, that would yield similar quality than a 3Mbps data-rate on an DVD.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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eric pautsch
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 1:02:09 am

An Avg of 17 mb/s is fine. You can also set a peak setting as well in case your footage needs it. However, it also depends on the encoder you use and how well your source file is. Ive authored titles with a 14 mb/s avg and they look great...then again, I've never used Compressor for BD work. Do a test and see.

Lot of titles done with bitrates lower than that. Here's a site which list some averages:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-movies-north-america/3338-blu-ray-movie-bi...


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Joseph Bradley
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 1:53:38 am

H-264 is usually used with MPeg4 not MPeg2. I've done several outputs using MPeg4 with H-264 and it looked great. Of course that depends on how good the footage was on import. I use FCP to output the footage so you don't need to use compressor.



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Rafael Amador
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 8:55:47 am

[Joseph Bradley] "H-264 is usually used with MPeg4 not MPeg2. I've done several outputs using MPeg4 with H-264 and it looked great. Of course that depends on how good the footage was on import. I use FCP to output the footage so you don't need to use compressor."
The question is not about MP4/H264.
The question is about MPEG-2.
How will look a 1080 MPEG-2 at 17Mbps?
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Chris Babbitt
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 4:35:05 pm

So, if you're not using Compressor, you must be using Quicktime to do the encoding, and neither Quicktime nor Compressor will make a blu-ray compatible H.264 file. So, what's your secret, Joseph?



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Steve Connor
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 5:33:59 pm

Why won't compressor make a BluRay compatible file? I've made a few that have been used in Adobe Encore with no problems at all

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Chris Babbitt
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 5:38:42 pm

Compressor only does Mp2 Blu-Ray files.



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Steve Connor
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 5:45:34 pm

It does do h264 for Blu-ray, certainly the latest version does at least. I know because I've done it numerous times

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Steve Connor
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 5:50:30 pm



Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Chris Babbitt
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 5:57:48 pm

Well that's very interesting. I have version 3 (Studio 2) and that option doesn't exist. Maybe a good reason to upgrade. Thanks for that.



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eric pautsch
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 12:42:34 am

Hawww....get a PC and do your BD work on that. I really dont want to do any work with a technology that has be proclaimed as a bag of hurt by the maker of my authoring computer....Thank you very much!!! :)

Besides there are better tools on PC. x264 matched quality and consistency on any $50K encoding setup. Its being used by Warner Bros and Criterion for thier releases....and its FREE.

Its really a waste to go out and buy Encore. Get a PC - there are free authoring tools to make 1 offs. If you need menus, simply buy Do Studio.

There are many reasons to own a PC for utility video work...this is one of them



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Chris Babbitt
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 1:27:36 am

I have a PC, and I hate it so much that I dread even turning the thing on.



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eric pautsch
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 3:19:32 am

I'd would have thought providing the best product possible would be more important than what platform you would prefer to use but to each thier own :)



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Steve Connor
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 7:25:06 am

I have to say I disagree with this, Compressor puts out excellent quality Blu-ray files and the latest version of Encore seems to work very well. I have authored 4 commercial Blu-rays using it with no issues.

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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walter biscardi
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 12:45:49 pm

[Chris Babbitt] "I have a PC, and I hate it so much that I dread even turning the thing on."

We purchased an HP Workstation complete with BluRay burner. A whopping $1500. The same Mac Pro would have easily been over $5000.

Sad to say but the PC world is so much cheaper and in the case of BluRay disc, they do have the superior BluRay authoring tools. Eric is a big proponent of DoStudio from NetBlender and he's an incredible BluRay author. He's the guy I seek out when I have questions about BD Authoring because that's what he does all day long.

We set up DoStudio here and it's simply the best tool out there for the price and now they even feature an entire encoding pathway too if you want to use it.

We use Compressor here for all our BluRay MPEG-2 files and they do work just fine, but Eric is right that Compressor is basically a toy with crappy compression compared to other tools that are out there. For instance, BitVice on the Mac absolutely kills Compressor for DVD MPEG-2 files. Haven't tried their HD Version yet, but once you really start to compare some of the other compression tools out there like Episode Pro, BitVice and some on the PC, that's when you realize that Compressor is decent, but you can definitely do a lot better.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" Winner, Best Documentary, LA Reel Film Festival...

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Rafael Amador
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 12:49:44 pm

[walter biscardi] "ht that Compressor is basically a toy with crappy compression compared to other tools that are out there. For instance, BitVice on the Mac absolutely kills Compressor for DVD MPEG-2 files. Haven't tried their HD Version yet,"
Hi Walter,
The HD version is not yet released.
Hopefully soon.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 8:56:24 am

[eric pautsch] "Besides there are better tools on PC. x264 matched quality and consistency on any $50K encoding setup. Its being used by Warner Bros and Criterion for thier releases....and its FREE. "
We have the same FREE tool for Mac. Is called HandBrake.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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eric pautsch
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 11:30:25 am

Hand brake doesn't output speak compliant streams for replication nor does it match the quality of x264



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Rafael Amador
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 12:29:30 pm

[eric pautsch] "Hand brake doesn't output speak compliant streams for replication nor does it match the quality of x264"
Hi Eric, i've never heard about "speak compliant streams".
About 'x264", HandBrake is FULLY x264.
Had you ever worked with him ?
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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eric pautsch
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 1:18:33 pm

Worked with who?

Edit: Ahhh...my fingers are faster than my brain sometimes :)


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Rafael Amador
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 1:33:04 pm

No, I mean if you have ever worked with this:



You are talking about HandBrake, but seems that you don't know much about.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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eric pautsch
Re: Is 17 mbs bitrate too low for BD?
on Nov 24, 2010 at 1:39:29 pm

I do apologize...i did not know Handbrake worked with x264....I go back on my word now :)



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