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FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...

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Jakob Mortensen
FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 2:37:53 pm

Hey

After spending money on upgrading the FCP package I realize that Adobe Premiere can work with AVCHD files WITHOUT transcoding.... What this a major thing to me. The potential timesaving is HUGE. furthermore i just read the article on eoshd.com about Adobe Premiers ability to use the graphic accelerator. Apparently the performance gain by this is huge.

I must say this makes me wonder if Apple is just resting completely on the laurels here. I for one am sorry that i used the money on the upgrade. I will download a demo of Adobe Premiere and see for myself.

Best wishes

Jakob


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David Roth Weiss
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 3:26:16 pm

If you actually know FCP the odds are that learning Premiere and getting up to speed will far outweigh any advantage you gain by avoiding transcoding. Furthermore, the transcoding is done by your computer, not by you the editor, and you\'d do better to simply learn to manage the transcoding and automate the process using the batch processing made possible by Compressor droplets to do it entirely in your spare or down time. Then there\'s the cost of the Adobe suite and the new Nvidia card you\'ll need to take advantage of the GPU functionality you\'re so keen on... A cost benefit analysis would most likely reveal that a decision to make the move has lots of cost and little real benefit.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 4:17:57 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "If you actually know FCP the odds are that learning Premiere and getting up to speed will far outweigh any advantage you gain by avoiding transcoding"

Perhaps, but all three big 'a' companies use the same basic editing methodology, same basic interface and many of the same keyboard shortcuts. Premiere Pro also includes FCP 7 and Avid keyboard shortcuts to help you along.

[David Roth Weiss] "Furthermore, the transcoding is done by your computer, not by you the editor, and you\'d do better to simply learn to manage the transcoding and automate the process using the batch processing made possible by Compressor droplets to do it entirely in your spare or down time."

Clearly, this is a philosophical choice and I generally say that one approach isn't better than the other: native vs. transcode. There are advantages to native as well as a traditional transcode workflow.

[David Roth Weiss] "Then there\'s the cost of the Adobe suite and the new Nvidia card you\'ll need to take advantage of the GPU functionality you\'re so keen on... A cost benefit analysis would most likely reveal that a decision to make the move has lots of cost and little real benefit."

This is true, there is a cost involved.

I'll also mention that I'm not 100% sure that the AVCHD (h264) is included in the Premiere Pro trial. What I would try is using the Media Browser, view your native AVCHD media and drag a clip to the new item button in the project if you do not see AVCHD presets in Premiere Pro. We cannot include licensed codecs in the trial... :-(


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David Roth Weiss
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 6:06:21 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "all three big 'a' companies use the same basic editing methodology, same basic interface and many of the same keyboard shortcuts. Premiere Pro also includes FCP 7 and Avid keyboard shortcuts to help you along."

I disagree with you on this one point Dennis. While very basic editing commands are essentially similar, it's the little things in life and in editing that really make a difference. Mastering one non-linear editing app does not equate to mastery of the others.

I'm pretty fast on uptake, but a couple of years ago when I tried to accomplish a job using Premiere CS4 for a Cow review I found the entire experience mighty frustrating. In fact, though I hate to admit it, I ultimately gave up. I understand Premiere CS5 is a vast improvement over CS4, but there's still not going to be a fast and completely seamless transition for most masters of FCP. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to take it lightly, and I certainly wouldn't advise having clients look over your shoulder for at least a month or two after making the transition.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 9:44:40 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "I disagree with you on this one point Dennis. While very basic editing commands are essentially similar, it's the little things in life and in editing that really make a difference. Mastering one non-linear editing app does not equate to mastery of the others."

Thanks David. I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't a learning curve - by no means. I think this is the biggest obstacle to anyone contemplating a change whether to (or away) from Adobe or Apple.

There are some tools and universal keyboard shortcuts that cross Apple, Avid and Adobe so that things like JKL, IO and a few others would help some people get up to speed.

Learning the nuances though to make someone really fast, are indeed a bit different for everyone and that will take the extra time. Deciding if the investment will bring a return is the real question and each person has to decide that themselves. ;-) Pretty sure we can agree on that one!

Cheers,
Dennis


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David Roth Weiss
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 9:58:57 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Learning the nuances though to make someone really fast, are indeed a bit different for everyone and that will take the extra time. Deciding if the investment will bring a return is the real question and each person has to decide that themselves. ;-) Pretty sure we can agree on that one! "

Agreed!!!

Now, if Adobe could just get Speech Search to be a little bit more accurate that might be a deal maker...

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 19, 2010 at 9:36:54 am

[David Roth Weiss] "Now, if Adobe could just get Speech Search to be a little bit more accurate that might be a deal maker..."

We'll be working on it. For CS5, you have three options instead of 1 in CS4. YOu have the standard analyzation, a script align feature like Avid and the ability to point to a text file and say that this is what is being spoken. So, the accuracy is there, it just may take a bit more work than you'd like. As I said, we'll be working on it.


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Michael Sacci
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 3:36:30 pm

PPRo and Avid have newer versions out. They are a step ahead on certain things. There will be a new FCP next year, we have to wait and see what they come out with. But if PPro better fits your workflow, then use it.

This is all old news.


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Gary Askham
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 4:36:10 pm

I think we covered this a few days ago on the COW. If Premiere fits your workflow better than FCP than it makes sense to use Premiere. If you are working alone and dealing with AVCHD then it makes sense.

As David mentions the GPU acceleration is only supported on a small number of NVidia cards. You might find that you have to buy a new card = added expense.

I work in a facility which is 50/50 FCP and Avid - for the jobs that suit Avid we use Avid. For the jobs that suit FCP we use FCP. So far we haven't seen the need to incorporate Premiere into any of our workflows... although we do use After Effects, Photoshop and Encore. Adobe does have it's uses.

Premiere is still not accepted in film and television - there just isn't the user base. We are talking about massive institutions which have spent lots of time and money on developing workflows and best practices. In fact we still have problems convincing some clients to use Final Cut Pro.

I personally don't think that things like the Mercury Engine are the way forward - it just encourages sloppiness. Plan and shoot your project properly. Do your research. Use professional cameras with proper recording systems, take time to log and ingest your material. Sure, being able to edit on set with footage straight from the camera is fun and mixing frame rates and frame sizes in the same sequence can be good in some situations... but it just isn't... professional.

------------------------
FCP and Avid Technical Support
Air Post Production
Shoreditch - London


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Don Walker
Re: FCP loosing the edge.. AVCHD...
on Nov 18, 2010 at 7:21:14 pm

What is professional? A lot of people will make good and even great productions using PPro, and they will make money doing it. Hence they are "Professionals". Most of my clients could care less what I use, as long as the final product looks good.
My point is you can make money on all 3 systems, and all are "Professional" products. Gary how many of your clients insist on AVID, just to use the buzzword that makes them feel "professional" I remember talking to the senior editor of one the biggest Post houses in Atlanta, Georgia about 8 years ago. I was musing about the growing phenomenon of FCP, and he said in a very authoritative voice, FCP will never be a "professional product" Opps...... Could PPro be at the verge of wide spread adoption right now.? It has a lot of things going for it.
As a FCP editor, I am contemplating CS5 because, I believe the quality of production would remain the same, with a lower cost of ownership. Like a majority of us out there, I have the CS5 Production bundle on my computers because of AE and PS. Why not pay for the update of just CS5, instead of FCP and CS5.
I'm not there yet but I'm thinking about it.

Be an editor first and a software operator second
don walker
Texarkana, Texas

John 3:16


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