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35mm into FCP?

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Jeremy Gunn
35mm into FCP?
on Nov 9, 2010 at 2:57:41 am

This is an ignoramus question, but I'm out of my depth and could use some help. I'll be directing a project in a while which will be shot digitally, probably on Arri Alexa (ProRes 4444). But we'll also probably shoot a little 35mm film footage for some high-speed shots. What is the typical process (and terminology) for getting the 35mm footage into digital form for editing in FCP? And once it's transferred, is that generally the last you bother with your negative? Film-to-digital is out of my realm, so I don't even know the terminology to phrase the question properly (or perform a better search here). I'd like to be less ignorant before I discuss more with the producer, as we work out the budget.

Thanks for any basic education you can offer.


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Shane Ross
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 9, 2010 at 5:34:17 am

[Jeremy Gunn] "What is the typical process (and terminology) for getting the 35mm footage into digital form for editing in FCP?"

It is called a TELECINE. The film is taken to a facility that can TELECINE the footage to tape, for you to capture, or they telecine to a hard drive, to the codec of your choice. I suggest the same one you are shooting the rest of the film on.

[Jeremy Gunn] "And once it's transferred, is that generally the last you bother with your negative?"

Unless you are going to get a negative cut. But COPY the footage they telecine...a few times. in case you lose a drive, you have a backup.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Gunn
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 9, 2010 at 8:48:14 am

Thank you, Shane. I wasn't sure that was telecine, for some reason I thought some other step was needed. Perfect. For an all-digital project with just a few film shots, I assume it wouldn't make sense to do a negative cut. (It's just a short, anyway.) Multiple copies = always wise, thanks.

One more ignorant question: This means the film footage, now digital footage, will just get color graded along with the rest of the final cut at the end, right?


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Michael Gissing
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 9, 2010 at 9:13:14 am

[Jeremy Gunn] "will just get color graded along with the rest of the final cut at the end, right?"

right.


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Jeremy Gunn
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 9, 2010 at 11:47:43 pm

I think I just inadvertently gave myself kudos. That's embarrassing.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 10, 2010 at 11:22:50 am

Are you going to release theatrically?
Are you shooting Alexa to LogC or Rec.709 color?

To better match Alexa and film footage your colorist would prefer LogC I think. If you are going to show your project on big screen again your colorist would be more comfortable with LogC. Then it is better to digitize your film with a film scanner, not telecine.

If you release on video it is ok to shoot Rec.709. Then it is probably better to go via telecine with film footage because that's where you can have log to video color space conversion done by someone who knows what he is doing.


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Rafael Amador
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 10, 2010 at 11:48:44 am

just to add to what Michael points, don't forget that depending of your final delivery format, the Color Grading requirement may be different. In some cases you don't have to go "Broadcast Safe".
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Jeremy Gunn
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 15, 2010 at 11:15:45 pm

Thank you for the additional input, Michael and Rafael. It'd be to LogC on the Alexa.

Project will be screened theatrically (digitally) for festivals, and on DVD or BD for other viewers. Very slight chance of tv broadcast down the road, but not planning on that.

If you have a chance, could you perhaps explain how digitizing with a scanner differs from telecine? Thank you very much.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 16, 2010 at 6:45:14 am

Scanner vs. telecine is like different types of film. Print stock is fast but coarse, intermediate is fine but slow.

You never telecine without some color correction – basic one light for dailies or very sophisticated for broadcast master. Even then telecine is used to create digital intermediate there is still a need to define the white and the black point. That means throwing away some fine variation in densities.

Film scanning is creating a digital clone of your negative. Ideally you don't correct anything, just capture full range of densities there are on your film.

Film is moving continuously during telecine. On a scanner each film frame is still when captured. That allows for multiple exposure and makes the final image more steady too.

Generally when shooting film you go to telecine for dailies, edit and then scan only the frames used in your cut. Both types of devices besides image also capture and create metadata – keycode, timecode, film roll and video reel names so it is relatively easy to match back to your original.

In your case if it is just a couple of shots you may skip telecine and just scan everything. The more footage you need the closer you are to the point where it is cheaper to telecine one light and then rescan.


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Jeremy Gunn
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 17, 2010 at 6:49:40 pm

Got it, thank you very much, Michael. I assume scanning, in addition to being costlier than telecine, takes longer, right? Since it'd just be a few shots, could scanning function for dailies (even though it there won't be any color correction), or would it likely take too long?


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Rafael Amador
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 17, 2010 at 8:21:40 pm

[Jeremy Gunn] "Project will be screened theatrically (digitally) for festivals, and on DVD or BD for other viewers. Very slight chance of tv broadcast down the road, but not planning on that."
Then I would make a full CC for theatrical, and then a levels correction for the DVD/BR (they must be Broadcast safe.Illegal levels are clipped).
Make a search in this forum and in the Color Forum about color grading for 16 and 35mm.
You will find most of what you need to know.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Jeremy Gunn
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 18, 2010 at 12:59:56 am

Rafael, for "full CC," do you mean of the digital final cut that will include the scanned 35mm footage, or do you mean correcting the 35mm footage separately at some stage? I'll do the searches, just figured it's such a specific question I'd ask here. Thanks again.


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Rafael Amador
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 18, 2010 at 8:55:57 am

[Jeremy Gunn] " for "full CC," do you mean of the digital final cut that will include the scanned 35mm footage, or do you mean correcting the 35mm footage separately at some stage?"
I mean your final cut.
Make your Theatrical master first. Then make a copy and make it Broadcast-safe.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Jeremy Gunn
Re: 35mm into FCP?
on Nov 18, 2010 at 11:50:06 pm

Thanks!


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