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What the Xserve EOL means to us...

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Will Griffith
What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 3:26:53 pm

Looks like we are moving to Dell Servers, Dell or EMC RAIDS, Windows 7 and around 20
i7 workstations running CS5 and most importantly Avid or Premiere in place of Final Cut.

I hate the idea of it.

At one time I believed in Apple. Not anymore.


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 3:30:01 pm

Ah com'on... XServes loss isn't that big a deal is it? What's the problem with using towers instead?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

DVD:http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX Cinema Displays


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Will Griffith
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 3:39:11 pm

(sarcasm on) Ah com'on.... who needs LOM? Redundant power? Form Factor?

There is no way to sugar coat this or believe that a MacPro is all you need.


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 5:08:23 pm

If there's a market, there's a solution from somebody, and Apple will be supporting it just as they have in the past (not forever, but long enough)....

You REALLY want to go to a new platform? There's a lot more headache in that than what's on the surface. Just the fact that there are 10 FCP users for every Adobe user should give you pause. Think of the lack of employees that there will be right now. 50% of the market is FCP. 23% is Avid, and the rest is the rest... Adobe, Vegas et all.

Redundant power is an issue, but I'm thinking there will be a solution if there's a market. Space? Well you gotta be kidding here. Side by side is possible, and is what I see when people are using towers. (heat is up and back too... probably cooler to boot.

That said, I've never lost a power supply in 23 years of NLE work.

I respect you, and wouldn't want to be steering you wrong. But every indication out there is that Apple has no intention of selling FCP, and further, FCS is in the midst of the biggest change in it's history. Give it time before you jump is what I'm saying.

Jerry


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John Heagy
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 5:54:51 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "Space? Well you gotta be kidding here. Side by side is possible"

I work in a 200,000sq/ft facility and space is an issue. Data centers are only so big and expensive... racks, cooling, computer flooring, etc.

Example: We have a six Xserve Episode cluster that occupies a mere 10.5" of rack space. It's all MacPro equivalent would consume the entire rack.

So no... we are not kidding.

John


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Zane Barker
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 3:39:27 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "XServes loss isn't that big a deal is it? What's the problem with using towers instead?"

Agreed. I for one would prefer a tower based server. Towers computers cool batter then rack mount computers. And staying cool is KEY when you want fast processors.

**Hindsight is always 1080p**


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Will Griffith
???
on Nov 5, 2010 at 3:43:51 pm

{{hand slaps face}}

... never mind.

As I said in an earlier post...

EOL Shake
EOL XRaid
Pro Apps stagnation
EOL Xserve
No future path
No information

It's over folks.


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John Heagy
Re: ???
on Nov 5, 2010 at 4:57:05 pm

Will has it right. This is bad news for FCP users. It portends the end of OS X Server, Xsan, and FCP. We have 50+ Xserves... we're screwed.

I have long hoped that Apple would certify a few PC servers to run OS X Server. The lack of this companion accouncment ala Promise, and the MacPro Migration guide, pretty much puts a stake into that.

I predict someone is designing a MacPro to 1 RU enclosure kit with dual power supplies as I type.

John Heagy


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Zane Barker
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 3:31:57 pm

Why do you have to move to windows because there is no xserve? There are still Mac server options, like the new MacPro Server.

**Hindsight is always 1080p**


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 5:48:03 pm

You guts should check out Grande Vitess in San Fran.

They've been racking OSX for as long as I can remember.

http://www.gvs9000.com/

Have you even worked with CS5 day in and day out, Will?


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Will Griffith
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 7:32:12 pm

Jeremy.. I don't want to use CS5, but Apple is forcing our hand here.

I don't have room for a rack full of MacPros and Apple may EOL Final Cut Server soon
for all we know.

I think I can horde a bunch of Xserve parts and run Final Cut Server for a few years
without problem since it works OK with most non-Apple apps... but I can not spend
any more money on a DYING Final Cut suite that may be consumer garbage by NAB11.

That means our planned refresh of systems will be PC because if Apple continues on the
consumer path then I won't support it anymore. Our IT department can deal with it.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 7:41:21 pm

[Will Griffith] "Jeremy.. I don't want to use CS5, but Apple is forcing our hand here."

Really? Have you even looked around?

Grande Vitesse makes 1U servers that run OSX. That's what I'm saying.

I hear you about the FCP suite, but whatever it's not dead yet. Until I see the equivalent press release from Apple about FCS, it's still on the vine. When the EOL'd Shake, Apple told us about it. When they EOL'd XRaid, they told us about it, and now this recent news, they told us about it.

At least they are giving you a little notice?


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Will Griffith
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 7:52:42 pm

Why in the world would I get a hacked 1U solution when I can just build a PC myself
that is faster and cheaper?

And how long before OSX Server is dead?

BTW... XRaid EOL was instant. So quick that it was impossible to get spare drives!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 7:53:51 pm

[Will Griffith] "Why in the world would I get a hacked 1U solution when I can just build a PC myself
that is faster and cheaper?

And how long before OSX Server is dead?"


The end is near. We are all going to die.


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Larry Applegate
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 7:41:04 pm

I have been trying for two years to get Adobe to provide any support or bug fixes for Encore. Including personal meetings with high-level executives and the India development team at NAB in April. Promises, but no results. Key people leaving Adobe. No internal knowledge or testing of real-life Blu-ray authoring with Encore. No way for the small Encore India team to get their fixes into the CS5 releases.

A fix which I documented and explained to the India team last March, which they implemented in a test build and showed me at NAB in April, still has not made it into any Encore release.

True, Encore is very low on the CS5 totem pole. The CS5 release was already in the works and it was too late to include this fix. But 7 months later, and never another Encore release? No fixes for the many bugs in Encore CS4 over its life?

At least Apple was honest enough not to promise anything for Blu-ray when they knew that trying to cobble a Blu-ray solution onto DVD Studio Pro was never going to work.

I was an Adobe employee for 3 years after they bought our previous company. They had lots of very smart programmers and scientists. But I fear they have lost their way with offshore development, not because the offshore people are not smart, but because there is a complete management disconnect for testing and bug fixing.

Regards,

Larry Applegate
http://blustreak.dvdafteredit.com/


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Will Griffith
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 7:54:51 pm

Larry.. it is bad all around on this.

Avid is having a big party right now. Their faces are sore from laughing and giggling with delight.

:(


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 5, 2010 at 7:56:56 pm

http://www.macworld.com/article/155495/2010/11/mactech.html

Just might give you a different perspective...

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

DVD:http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX Cinema Displays


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Jeff Bernstein
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 7:08:29 am

Here is what is odd. I was at that conference and there was not a specific discussion about this as Rob alludes to. There were definitely discussions about it, however. The general consensus from those who regulalyr sell and install XServes was a whopping WTF!!!

The MacPro is not a replacement for multiple reasons, not the least of which are the lack of LOM and inefficient rackspace use. 2 boxes taking up 12RU is absurd.

One must really question where Apple is going here. If Apple is planning something better, great, but unlike the consumer space, people running businesses can not stomach Apple's love of surprises. Businesses don't like surprises. They like to plan. Then again, Apple has never really cared enough about the Enterprise or Pro space.

If Apple cared about the Pro space, for instance, don't you think we would have current Nvidia-based graphics cards? A fully functional QuickTime X/QTkit? Final Cut Truly Pro? But I digress.

Apple, you are either in it to win or you are not. If you could only put the same amount of effort you put into the consumer space, then maybe, we wouldn't be in this situation.

If Apple doesn't do some damage control here, I think it will make a lot of people question not only Apple's commitment to these markets, but these people will have to question whether their needs can be met by Apple. If actions speak louder than words, then there are way too many unanswered questions.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 12:56:40 pm

No doubt every application can always be better. Encore is no different. The fact remains though that it does provide many aspects of blu-ray authoring on a Mac platform and it has improved version over version. In addition, your product will extend its functionality - this is all good news for the Mac platform and its pro users.

As for this thread, as many have stated, any one of the big three editors can probably fill the job. Avid, Apple and Adobe all have their pros and cons. Only the users can determine if Premiere Pro can replace FCP for them.

As to Adobe's commitment to the pros in the video space - Adobe was in the video business before Apple and remains committed to it to this day. Adobe was first to develop on Apple's cocoa platform of the big three (oh, the irony!). Adobe is also the first to develop GPU hardware acceleration...etc...

Adobe doesn't have a Final Cut Server or an Avid Interplay, but Premiere Pro can hang off the storage of either. People should do their research, ask questions and hopefully make the decision that is best for them. For some, this will be Adobe - others not.

And for my disclaimer - I am an active Adobe employee...

Dennis


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Alessandro Capitani
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 9:41:13 am

sorry guys but for XSan deployments i see no alternative to XServe.
Form factor of Macpro is simply not adequate for mid/large scale deployments (unless you expand your machine room just for that) and macmini is simply ridicolous.

In my opinion Xserve EOL is posing a big threat to survival of XSan deployments and possibly questions regarding real Apple committment to Pro market in the future.

My 2 cents.
Ale.

"Editing is 80% diplomacy and 20% actual skill"


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 2:50:30 pm

If history repeats itself, seems to me that Apple came up with an alternative to the xserve Raid when it went away, and they could easily do a deal with someone to create a server which is compatible too?

That was what folks were talking about in that article, right?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

DVD:http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX Cinema Displays


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Will Griffith
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 3:25:32 pm

Apple provided the Promise solution when the XRaid was discontinued.
That solution fulfilled the needs immediately.

The solution(s) they have supplied for the XServe do not.

-will


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Zane Barker
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 3:29:01 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "If history repeats itself, seems to me that Apple came up with an alternative to the xserve Raid when it went away, and they could easily do a deal with someone to create a server which is compatible too?"

Exactly Apple must be prepping the iRack for product launch. Introducing the iRack Apples new Rack Mounted Server.

**Hindsight is always 1080p**


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 4:05:38 pm

At any rate, I don't think the story here is over, and Apple is mulling over what to do here. I just can't see them wanting to lose customers for all those stations in the server environment.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

DVD:http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX Cinema Displays


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John Heagy
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 4:06:29 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "Apple came up with an alternative to the xserve Raid when it went away,"

Yes, Promise storage and Xserve RAID EOL were announced in the same news release. This gave customers an immediate alternative - not a good alternative - but it made clear Apple's commitment to Xsan.

If Apple thinks a MacPro is a server alternative they are sadly mistaken. If they plan on announcing PC server support for OSX Server later, then I question their marketing smarts. Do they think people will walk back across that charred bridge? I suppose, but clearly not the way to do it.

Raise your hand if anybody thinks the control freaks that run Apple would be at all interested in supporting hardware they can't control?

John Heagy


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Tom Babauta
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 6:59:12 pm

Personally, I think this is a sign of things to come.

With the way the trend is going, I'm would not be surprised if they abandon Final Cut Studio by NAB next year. By then they would be rolling out iMovie 8 HD or something to replace it. Clearly the development of the enterprise/pro division has been sidetracked, if not slowly being abandoned. I'm not sure how much money Apple is making from their Pro products, but I am sure it is way lower than their profit margins from the consumer based products. They are fighting a bigger fight in the iOS front with Android making alot of headway this year, and I'm sure that is not something they will take sitting down. So naturally, all efforts will be focused there, and that is unfortunate for the pro market.

With the Adobe CS5 speed and integration presenting a very appealing alternative to FCP, I think we might be seeing alot of pros shifting these next few months.

My 2 cents.



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Dave Jenkins
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 6, 2010 at 8:32:25 pm

Try using Encore to make a Bluray. If you do one thing Encore doesn't like you will have to start the project from scratch to get it to work. I have to double the price of building Blurays in Encore to not lose my shirt when I quote a Bluray project. I won't be going to any Adobe suite anytime soon with the experiences I have had with Encore!

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro Two 2.8GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe
FCS 3 OS X 10.6 QT 10


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Tom Babauta
Re: What the Xserve EOL means to us...
on Nov 7, 2010 at 3:30:55 am

Ey Dave, been using Encore for several projects for Blu-Ray authoring, running fine so far. Haven't had any authoring or encoding issues. I'm running it on a PC though.



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