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How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence

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Simon Tyler
How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 11, 2010 at 2:30:35 pm

Can anyone help with a transcoding issue?

I followed some workflow from Mediastorm to transcode Canon 5D MkII footage for editing in FCP. This created HDV files with a 1440x1080 aspect ratio and frame rate of 29.97fps. I edited in this format.

I now need to edit the whole thing with other footage that's in an XDCAM EX 1080p25 timeline (1920x1080 square pixels).

Copying the HDV sequence into the new timeline produces odd video and audio dropouts. Exporting the HDV sequence to a Quicktime (Apple HDV 1080p30) and importing that is better but introduces juddering on all the shots with any camera movement.

Is there an efficient way to transcode the HDV sequence for the 1080p25 timeline?

Thanks
Simon


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Gary Askham
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 11, 2010 at 5:55:10 pm

What's the final purpose of the edit? If it's for broadcast or high quality web then you're going to need to have it converted by a hardware convertor. In the US Terranex seems to be the brand to ask for. Here in the UK you would ask for an Alchemist conversion. It can be very expensive.

If it's not for broadcast then you can try using software solutions. Nattress makes an FCP Plugin, Compressor can do standards conversions but it can be a bit hit and miss. Mpeg Streamclip can do fast and dirty conversions too.

------------------------
FCP and Avid Technical Support
Air Post Production
Shoreditch - London


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Simon Tyler
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 11, 2010 at 7:33:00 pm

Thanks Gary. No the edit won't be broadcast, I'm making a Quicktime file of four edits I want to loop at an event for marketing. I'll be playing them on a 23-inch screen, so they need to run smoothly.

I'd like to use Compressor or MPEG Streamclip as you suggest, and I need to convert the pixels from rectangular back into square pixels. I've exported direct from FCP using Quicktime Conversion to a ProRes file, and the image is nice but it judders. Perhaps the conversion from 29.97 fps to 25fps is causing this.

Thanks for the advice about Natress - I'll give that a look.

Simon


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 11, 2010 at 9:19:51 pm

[Simon Tyler] "I've exported direct from FCP using Quicktime Conversion to a ProRes file, and the image is nice but it judders. Perhaps the conversion from 29.97 fps to 25fps is causing this."

Frame rate conversion isn't as simple as you think. All you did was place a 29.97 clip in a 25 timeline. The frame changes now fall at screwy points in your video.

Do a search for something like "29.97 to 25", "NTSC to PAL" or a similar phrase in this forum. Using Compressor to do this has been covered many times. The result isn't award-winning, but it's certainly better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, and MUCH better than the mess you currently have.

Nattress filters are better. Hardware frame rate conversion is best.

And you DO realize that by converting that DSLR video to 1440x1080 HDV, your images took a big hit in quality, right? They started life as 1920x1080, but you decided to throw away 1/4 of the horizontal resolution. By going to HDV, you also threw away a lot of color resolution, too.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Simon Tyler
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 11, 2010 at 10:32:56 pm

Thanks very much Dave for your advice - I'll check out the posts on Compressor.

I certainly never think any of this stuff is simple and I realise that transcoding to 1440x1080 was a bad idea. I followed the only neatly presented step-by-step workflow I could find on the web. At least I still have the original 5D files in case I need to do a second edit.

Simon


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 11, 2010 at 10:58:19 pm

[Simon Tyler] "At least I still have the original 5D files in case I need to do a second edit."

When you dfo, look for Shane Ross' tutorial on Tapeless Workflow. And if you still have the files on their crds, even better.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 11, 2010 at 8:16:08 pm

[Gary Askham] "In the US Terranex seems to be the brand to ask for. Here in the UK you would ask for an Alchemist conversion. It can be very expensive."

As an aside, there are plenty of Alchemists here in the US, too. I'd say Alchemist has the edge here -- it uses motion compensation in its frame rate conversion.

Teranex has just announced motion compensated frame rate conversion in their latest product, and I don't think it's hit the street yet.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Peter Wiggins
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 12, 2010 at 7:50:09 am

Simon,

I've already done all the compressor presets for you.
5D to FCP PAL Compressor Presets and timelines

I'd recommend you start again witht the original 5D files

Peter



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Simon Tyler
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 12, 2010 at 8:41:18 am

Thanks very much Peter. I tried out your Compressor droplets in the early stages of testing, but unfortunately didn't stick with them. The end-to-end workflow I ended up using included a separate step to conform all the footage to 29.97fps, and at that time, I wasn't sure of exactly how much of the conversion the droplets would take care of and how much other processing I needed to do.

I also tried out a Timestretch droplet on the entire edit yesterday, just to see what would happen. Of course it didn't sync up with the audio, so yes you're right, I would need to go back to the original files and start again to sort it.

Simon


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Peter Wiggins
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 12, 2010 at 10:53:02 am

I think you will have a certain amount of pain whichever way you choose, but it is always worth starting off on the right foot.



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Simon Tyler
Re: How can I transcode 1440x1080 30fps footage for a 1920x1080 25fps sequence
on Oct 12, 2010 at 10:56:06 am

Thanks Peter. I've learned the hard way on this one!!


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