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mixing drop and non drop frame

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Phil Hawes
mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 5, 2010 at 7:17:45 pm

This concerns a documentary where the majority of the footage was shot on DVCAM and HDV but there will be additional archival footage from a variety of sources. The project is currently in offline cutting on a DV Anamorphic 29.97 fps (60i) drop frame sequence. The online will be Pro Res 422 HQ 60i drop. 60i drop frame matches the DVCAM and HDV source material but not necessarily the archival stuff. I'm concerned about mixing drop frame and non drop frame material on any Final Cut sequence. Compressor does not give me options to convert from non-drop to drop when using the Pro Res HQ settings.

Any advice for how I could do a conversion from non-drop to drop if I need to while converting to Pro Res or is it really an issue?
It seems to me that I have had problems in the past with mixing non-drop and drop frame material in the same sequence in Final Cut.
The problems appeared in Render Files being created for the wrong portion of a clip.

The only way I know how to convert from non-drop to drop is to put the non-drop frame Pro Res converted clip onto a drop frame Pro Res sequence and "Export Quick Time Movie". This is tedious.

Thank you for your time,

Phil


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 5, 2010 at 8:19:49 pm

[Phil Hawes] "Any advice for how I could do a conversion from non-drop to drop if I need to while converting to Pro Res or is it really an issue?"

Why do you have to convert tc? Your timeline being in DF has no effect on your footage that could be DF of NDF.

If you need to convert files, why not just capture them as ProRes? Quality will probably be better anyway.

Jeremy


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Phil Hawes
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 5, 2010 at 9:46:46 pm

I have access to a Kona 3 so I'll be capturing archival footage as Uncompressed, then converting that to ProRes.
I think I just answered my own question.
If I'm concerned about ALL THE FOOTAGE being drop frame I can simply use the "modify timecode" option in Final Cut.
I forgot about that menu option since I rarely deal with non-drop material.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 5, 2010 at 9:48:33 pm

I'm pretty sure you should NOT modify your original tc from captures. It's going to do nothing but harm.


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John Pale
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 6, 2010 at 2:46:14 am

Why do you want to change your source timecode to a common format?

Are you of the mistaken impression that this is at all necessary or desirable?


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Mark Spano
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 6, 2010 at 4:01:22 pm

What all these people are trying to tell you is that your source clips' timecode is completely independent of your sequence timecode. Whatever timecode you set your sequence to (drop/non-drop) is all that matters in your case. Leave all your source clips intact with whatever timecode they were captured in. No reason to change that. You can edit any drop or non-drop source clips into your sequence just fine.



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Phil Hawes
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 6, 2010 at 6:09:08 pm

I think I am not expressing myself clearly.

For any Final Cut Project I will modify a source clip if it does not match my sequence settings. So if my sequence is ProRes 60i and I have a 24p clip or a 50i clip, I will modify the clip to be 60i for the following reasons: I can avoid rendering on the sequence while editing and I can use conversion tools that are better than those inside Final Cut. That is my standard practice.

My question is simply: has anyone had problems mixing non-drop frame and drop frame clips on the same sequence? Normally I only work with drop frame media.


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Mark Spano
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 6, 2010 at 6:29:23 pm

[Phil Hawes] "So if my sequence is ProRes 60i and I have a 24p clip or a 50i clip, I will modify the clip to be 60i"

Sure - that is fine. What you are talking about is resolving differences in frame rates.

[Phil Hawes] "has anyone had problems mixing non-drop frame and drop frame clips on the same sequence?"

Answer: no. No problems whatsoever, since here there are no differences in frame rates.



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Phil Hawes
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 6, 2010 at 6:41:09 pm

Thank you, that answers my question.
So I will have no problems mixing 60i DF and 60i NDF in a 60i DF sequence.

Yes, it is quite possible that my render file problems were caused by something else. That problem was on another project.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: mixing drop and non drop frame
on Oct 6, 2010 at 4:04:03 pm

[Phil Hawes] "The problems appeared in Render Files being created for the wrong portion of a clip."

Also, this points to something different than DF/NDF. In this case, I'd simply trash your render files and try again.


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