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AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings

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Robin Rudy
AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 18, 2010 at 10:32:15 pm

Greetings, Cow.

Working on a short doc shot in Russia.
Final delivery is for a DVD to be projected within the states.

Looking to have a solid workflow.

Thanks to these posts I'm all set wth ClipWrap.

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/999044
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1025822#1025822

I have footage shot on 7d at 50 and 25 fps.
Compression is h.264
1280 x 720

I have footage shot on Panasonic HMC 151 at 25fps
Compression after ClipWrap is Apple Pro Res HQ
1920 x 1080

I'm running FCP 6.0 and the Compressor program is currently not working for me.

Questions:

1. Do I convert all footage in Cinema Tools to 29.97? the footage shot at 50 fps obviously goes to slow mo, is this just a creative choice from the shooter, is this a standard practice?

2. As the M2T files compression is Apple Pro Res HQ after using clip wrap, and the 7D footage compression is at h.264 - should I use mpeg streamclip to down convert the Apple Pro Res HQ to h.264? Or am I stuck just having to render the 7d footage with h.264 compression on the TL?

3. How do I work with these different sizes on one TL:
1280 x 720
1920 x 1080?

Should sequence settings be as follows:

1920 x 1080 HDTV 1080i
pixel aspect ratio: square
editing timebase 29.97
QT video settings/ compressor - Apple Pro Res HQ

or should I be working with a sequence set to 1280 x720?

Thank you for your help.

RR

MacBook Pro / Intel Core 2 Duo / 2.2 GHz /
2 GB memory / 800 MHz / FCP 6.0




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Rafael Amador
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 19, 2010 at 1:57:44 am

Hi Robin,
[Robin Rudy] "1. Do I convert all footage in Cinema Tools to 29.97? the footage shot at 50 fps obviously goes to slow mo, is this just a creative choice from the shooter, is this a standard practice? "
If all your footage is 25 and 50 fps, why do you want to go to 29'98?
Edit everything in a p25 sequence. You just have to decide the size 1080 or 720).
Conform to p25 (CinemaTools) only the footage that you will need in slow motion. Do this in a duplicated clips, because this path has no way back.

[Robin Rudy] "2. As the M2T files compression is Apple Pro Res HQ after using clip wrap, and the 7D footage compression is at h.264 - should I use mpeg streamclip to down convert the Apple Pro Res HQ to h.264? Or am I stuck just having to render the 7d footage with h.264 compression on the TL?"
You shouldn't put any H264 in your sequence. H264 is not a format supported by FC for editing. It may works; It may crash FC. If its works, go ahead, but don't try to put many effects, speed changes or things like that.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Robin Rudy
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 19, 2010 at 6:39:55 am

Hi Rafael,

Thanks for your answer, you have answered some of my questions in the past, and is much appreciated.

I read here that when working with 25p footage that will go on a DVD that is in the us, 29.97, that the footage should be converted to 23.98 in cinema tools before beginning any editing work. Is this correct?

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1036008#1036730

Or in your comment, I understand that you mean I should edit in a 25 p TL and then deal with converting the full edit to be viewed on a DVD in the US when the edit is done. Problem is my compressor is not working. :(


Thanks for the h.264 comment for the 7D footage, in this case how do I deal with using this 7D footage as it is clear when bringing into into the TL that rendering is required. Would converting it in Mpegstreamclip to Apple DVCPro HD 1080p25 be the best workaround?

Any help is appreciated.

Best,
RR

MacBook Pro / Intel Core 2 Duo / 2.2 GHz /
2 GB memory / 800 MHz / FCP 6.0




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Rafael Amador
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 19, 2010 at 9:48:04 am

[Robin Rudy] "I read here that when working with 25p footage that will go on a DVD that is in the us, 29.97, that the footage should be converted to 23.98 in cinema tools before beginning any editing work. Is this correct?"
OK. Now I catch you.

Yes. You can conform all the p25 stuff to 23'976, and edit in this time-base, or you can edit in p25 and conform the final edit to 23'976.
I don't see any problem in you to conform all the p25 stuff.
But I wouldn't do it with the p50 unless you intend to make a lot of slow motion.
I think that I would simply drop the p50 stuff in a p25 sequence in FC and export as Prores (Avoid DVCProHD). Then conform the footage.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Robin Rudy
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 20, 2010 at 2:38:19 am

Thanks, Rafael, esp how to work with the 50p.

Regarding the conversion....My compressor is not working, looks like Cow does not have an Apple Compressor forum? I was to post on the Panasonic DVX100-HMC150 but maybe you can help here regarding the conversion. Kind thanks.

1. Is it possible for me to execute the conversion from 25p to 23.98 without Compressor solely using Cinema Tools as I read here:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1036008#1036730

2. Or is Nattress the best option if Compressor is not working. as I've read here: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/933952


3. Current pal to ntsc workflow:

a. run AVCHD footage through ClipWrap to generate a file in Pro Res HQ b. convert it to 23.98 in Cinemal tools

all was fine with video but then there was no audio. I'm thinking of using the orig. 25p audio and bringing this into soundtrack pro and stretching it (is this correct?), but wouldn't Compressor just take care of all of this?

Thanks for your help, as this is new terrain for me.

RR


Does this workflow sound corre

MacBook Pro / Intel Core 2 Duo / 2.2 GHz /
2 GB memory / 800 MHz / FCP 6.0




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Rafael Amador
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 20, 2010 at 4:39:51 am

No Compressor Forum. Normally the issues with Compressor come to this FC Forum.
You may try this to fix it. It works:

http://www.digitalrebellion.com/compressor_repair.htm

[Robin Rudy] "1. Is it possible for me to execute the conversion from 25p to 23.98 without Compressor solely using Cinema Tools as I read here:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1036008#1036730"

Yes. No need to go through Compressor.
That's the best option. No rendering. Just a mouse click.

[Robin Rudy] "a. run AVCHD footage through ClipWrap to generate a file in Pro Res HQ b. convert it to 23.98 in Cinemal tools all was fine with video but then there was no audio. I'm thinking of using the orig. 25p audio and bringing this into soundtrack pro and stretching it (is this correct?), but wouldn't Compressor just take care of all of this?"

In ClipWrap, had you checked "Convert the Audio to PCLM"?
If not, that is the problem with the audio.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Robin Rudy
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 26, 2010 at 8:15:46 pm

Hi Rafael!

You saved me with the Compressor fix, it is working again, **thank you**. Computer and some programs a little slower after running the program but that is the least of the worries.

Need help with 25fps TL test, please see below. Green Flashing and Stuttering.

Now, I have 181 AVCHD Converted in CipWrap clips to conform from 25 to 23.98 and 130 7D clips to conform from 25 and 50 to 23.98.

Compressor took 1 hour to conform one clip.
If going the conform before edit approach, should I use Nattress to conform?
Considering all of the sound issues I have read about on the internets and Cow, is it most logical to deal with conforming the clips to 23.98 since my goal is an SD dvd before editing?

But NOW I am thinking it would make the most sense to just work in 25fps as you suggested and to conform wen the edit is finished....

So, Before moving forward with a 25fps TL, I did a test following the SLOW PAL method of converting PAl to NTSC according to this link to see what I was getting myself into:

http://www.macworld.com/article/49306/2006/02/marchcreate.html

and encountered a BIG problem. Green Flashes not on 7d clip but on the AVCHD clip that was run through Clip Wrap. Please help. Why would this happen.

Workflow:

a) Converted AVCHD clip in Clip Wrap to Pro Res HQ., is 25fps. and Yes, the audio was checked Convert Audio to LPCM.

b) converted 7D clip in mpegstreamclip from h264 to Pro Res HQ, is 25 fps
c) brought both clips that are 1920 x 1880 into TL with these settings
1920 x 1080 HDTV 1080i
pixel aspect ratio: square
editing timebase 25
QT video settings/ compressor - Apple Pro Res HQ
d) exported ref movie from TL, 7d clip first, avchd converted clip 2nd..
e) brought into cinema tools, one click to conform to 23.98
f) when playing back the QT in Quicktime player, 7d clip is perfect, but when it goes into the AVCHD converted clip, on one test I saw Green Frames/Flashing and then the other test yeiled a flashing of the 7D clip (like stuttering) where the avchd clip was on the TL...do you understand what I saw?

Thank you for any help.
RR


I have footage shot on 7d at 50 and 25 fps.
Compression is h.264
1280 x 720

I have footage shot on Panasonic HMC 151 at 25fps
Compression after ClipWrap is Apple Pro Res HQ
1920 x 1080

MacBook Pro / Intel Core 2 Duo / 2.2 GHz /
2 GB memory / 800 MHz / FCP 6.0




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Robin Rudy
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 26, 2010 at 8:25:09 pm

Greetings,

I should note that when I remove the 7D clip from the TL and simply try to conform the AVCHD converted clip as a ref mov and then bring into cinema tools to conform to 23.98, there is no green flashes and it conforms perfectly. However obviously in this edit I will have both 7d and AVCHD clips on one TL.

Thanks for any help, RR

MacBook Pro / Intel Core 2 Duo / 2.2 GHz /
2 GB memory / 800 MHz / FCP 6.0




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Robin Rudy
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Sep 27, 2010 at 6:18:01 am

Rafael, I have posted this to the Panasonic forum as it specifically relates to AVCHD footage. Sorry for double posts. Thanks again.

MacBook Pro / Intel Core 2 Duo / 2.2 GHz /
2 GB memory / 800 MHz / FCP 6.0




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emanuele tiziani
Re: AVCHD (M2T) and 7D footage - fps, compression, and seq settings
on Nov 12, 2010 at 5:27:58 pm

hi all,
i'm new here, but i've using this site many times, so, thanks.
just a question: i need to work with 5d and sony hdcam clips (1920x1080).
i think that the best way for me is to work on a TL proresHQ, 1440x1080 (16:9). So i intend that i've to convert both materials to a proresHQ compression codec, in order to have a better workflow and not to stress to much my makbookpro (i noticed that working with h264 on TL setting, make crashing FCP).
If i convert all the clips i'll need a LOT of disk space (i've 300gb h264 and 300gb sonyxdcam).
The question is really easy.
Which kind of storage disk do u use? And, mainly, is what i'm doing correct?

Thanks to u all, Manu


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