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Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?

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Miodrag Ristic
Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 2:08:14 pm

I'm working in a 720p25 sequence.

Exported as QT Movie (current settings) as I would normally do for Compressor for DVD output.

DVD done, looks good, but I forgot to put Timecode Generator, as it was for a client preview.
So, I went beck to that exported Quick Time Movie and imported it back to place TC Generator over the whole 7 min clip.

When I imported it back to my sequence, I got red rendering bar!? Why, if it was imported as "current settings".
How is that possible?
Went to check sequence settings and clip settings and found that this reimported QT has Pixel Aspect - "Square" and all sequences and all original clips are HD (960 x 720).

What's going on here?

...
And since no one answered my original post, I did some search and found this:

It appears to be a known bug,
reported here by Frederic Lumiere and posted on Ken Stone's site.

What worries me, he noticed it in FCP 6.0.2 and I'm experiencing it in 5.1

Next question is, is it still in FCP 7? That'd be a real problem,
on so many levels.

Here is the article:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/dvcpro_hd_aspect_bug.html

Rista


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Shane Ross
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 2:14:34 pm

You fail to mention what codec you are dealing with here. HD 1280x720 isn't a codec.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 2:18:07 pm

Sorry, I was copying and pasting from another post, it's DVCPRO HD,
as it says in the article (link provided)/

Thanks

Rista


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 2:22:22 pm

It looks like the link doesn't work,
you can try this url without link:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/dvcpro_hd_aspect_bug.html


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Shane Ross
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 3:03:48 pm

So you EXPORTED a QT movie, self contained, no recompression, using the sequence settings? And you end up with a 960x720 DVCPRO HD file? Or when you reimport it does it come in as 1280x720? I don't know if this issue was fixed, as I haven't worked with DVPCRO HD for a while....but I can see if I have some footage laying about.

IN the meantime, how are you compressing this for the client? Did you know you could add timecode in Compressor? I have a tutorial on this:

http://library.creativecow.net/ross_shane/visible-timecode/1

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 3:19:11 pm

Yes



No,the Pixel Aspect ratio is already HD (960x720) in original clips, in browser, and Sequence got
the same settings. You know, it's that DVCPRO HD thing, like 1080 is not really 1920x1080,
but rather 1440x1080.

And when I import that QT back again, the Pixel Ratio is no more HD (960x720) - but comes as
Pixel Ratio "Square", with red rendering bar when placed on the timeline.
Playing the clip itself in the Viewer it's obvious that something's wrong. Just soft and slightly jittery.



I know that, but I really need this.
I want to be able to use parts of the clips in other projects in the fiture,
it's just ridiculous...
Or you are trying to tell me to give up?

Is it still present in FCP 7?

Rista


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 3:48:05 pm

I don't see any but but FC miss interpreting the pixels aspect of the file.
If the file is 960x720, just check HD pixels in the Browser.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 4:08:16 pm

I didn't understand you Rafael and I'm not sure if you understand me,
but I'll try to attach the image of the browser:

The offending file is in blue "EquineQT", the reimported Quick Time file.
Above it are the original files from P2 card, bellow are some stills and the Sequence.
You can see that Sequence and Clips are matching but the reimported file has
different Pixel Aspect ratio and (now I noticed) different Frame Size (although it looks good in both Viewer
and Canvas, I mean fits both windows).

1095_pixelaspect.jpg.zip


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 4:14:44 pm

Hi Miodrag,
I understand now.
Try changing the size in the "Clip properties" in QT.
Set 960x720.
When you reimport it to FC, make sure that shows HD pixels in the Browser.
See if still needs to render.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 4:22:26 pm

In QT?

I know how to "Show Clip Properties", but where do I go to change them?


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 4:56:34 pm

[Miodrag Ristic] "I know how to "Show Clip Properties", but where do I go to change them?
"

Click Video Track > Visual setting
Uncheck Preser aspect ratio and set 960 x 720.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:21:36 pm

I did that, the settings are fixed in the browser, but I still get the red render bar
and footage looks jittery in the browser.

Why that other project worked fine,
as I explained earlier.

Only thing different between those two projects is that problematic one has
psd file and another still.

When I was importing psd file I even tried to that correctly and created a file with HDTV setting.
Before that transferred layers from original psd file provided from client's graphic "designer", as I noticed some weird things, like vector graphics, just didn't look right... I don't know...


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 6:00:00 pm

Rafael, I'm getting somewhere... I exported a small portion of the timeline without problems when reimported.
All as it should be, Pixel Ratio, Frame Size and no render bar.

I'm going slowly with different parts of the timeline until I can narrow down a culprit.
It looks like, the stills are not the problem as I first deleted them in this timeline.

Hopefully I'll get to it, I remember how Lumiere concluded it's just random... hopefully
I'll get firther... uh... it's 4 am here...


Mio


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 4:33:27 pm

I noticed another thing, interestingly enough, the setting of offended clip are matching the settings
of STILL clips used in the project (see browser image).

That prompted me to try the same trick with my other 720p25 project (no stills used) - No Problems!
Exported QT file when reimported looks just fine, no render bars.

Is it possible that those stills are causing the problem, they are both "Square" pixels and one of them
is 128x720?

Mio


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Terry Mikkelsen
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:27:31 pm

Interesting problem, but odd way of trying to solve it.

To add something (an effect) to an entire sequence, nest the sequence into a new sequence. Or in this case, with burn-in needed, I would have just re-encoded with Compressor but added the "Timecode Generator" filter that Compressor provides.

Tech-T Productions
http://www.technical-t.com


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:34:44 pm

Please, that TC thing is not the issue.

The issue is: a sequence exported as Quick Time movie, current settings, not recompressed SHOULD
be exact copy of the timeline, so it should re-import as a native file - NOT with red rendered bar.


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Terry Mikkelsen
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:41:00 pm

But I'm struggling with a reason as to WHY I would re-import a QT file.

Tech-T Productions
http://www.technical-t.com


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:50:37 pm

It's same like if you asked me why would I want a car that can go 180 km/hr when maximum allowed is
110...

Firstly, If you ever made a demo for example and wanted a clip included from a various projects, maybe 10 or more, you'd grab parts of those competed projects and import them into new project/ timeline.

Secondly, you might sometime need a part of project previously done for a clint and add to something else...


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John Pale
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:59:34 pm

back when this bug first reared its ugly head under FCP 6, I found that adding a meaningless filter (color correction with no change in settings) to the offending clips (in this case, the PSD files), then rendering, would then make the timeline's export work correctly. FCP would use the render file's pixel aspect (which would match the DVCPROHD timeline) instead of the PSD's pixel aspect.

Give it a shot.

You should definitely report this bug to Apple ASAP.


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 6:14:45 pm

Doesn't work unfortunately.

Tried already a timeline with no graphics and still happens.

My last positive shot was a piece of timeline, random, small, and it came back just fine.

Mio


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 17, 2010 at 6:46:38 pm

Found it!

Doesn't like any graphics or even text subtitle or lower thirds like Matte - Colour to place under the text.
If clips chosen of pure video, no problems, but if there is anything else on top a clip - no go.
comes back as "Square" Pixel Aspect and 1280x720 (instead of 960x720.
Tried that with applying a random filter what John suggested, but it doesn't work.

Well, that's only half a job, is there a workaround...

I leave it for tomorrow, it's 4:50 in the morning here, what a night...

Thank to everyones for help.

Mio


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John Pale
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 18, 2010 at 5:00:01 pm

Can you try nesting a sequence with graphics before export? Note that the nesting dialog shows the frame dimensions..
Sorry for your troubles. Hope you are in contact with Apple. This bug was fixed...apparently they rebroke it.
I work almost exclusively ProRes now, but many, like you don't have that luxury.


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Does this BUG still exist in FCP 7?
on Sep 19, 2010 at 1:10:55 am

Thanks John, I haven't try nesting, I'll do it tonight.



How do you mean they rebroke it? Does is still occurs in FCP 7?
I know it was reported in 6.0.6 (Frederic Lumiere), and I now noticed that it was there before
in FCP 5.1.4.
So, was it fix later in 6.something or... ?


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