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720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast

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David Gill
720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 12, 2010 at 5:02:17 pm

Hi there. Thanks for taking a look at this thread.

I have currently been putting together an advert for a small company. It was shot on a Canon 7d in 60p. I then converted all the footage to 25p in Cinema Tools. The advert is for a UK PAL SD network.

I've finished the sound mix and now just need to deliver the file. In final cut the footage looks great, but when I convert the file to 720x576 in Compressor (using non-square pixels and exporting in ProRes HQ) it looks "squished" and everyone is out of proportion.

Is this just to be expected until the broadcast? Does the network's hardware "unsquish" the footage? I've burnt the "squished" footage onto a DVD and it still looks out of proportion on my TV.

Or is there a way to keep the 16:9 ratio? Perhaps by placing a letterbox above and below the footage and effectively making it 4:3. Is there a way to do this?

Sorry if this all sounds a bit confused. All I want is for the footage to look like it should!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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John Fishback
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 12, 2010 at 7:14:10 pm

I think ProRes HQ is overkill, although, it won't cause your issue. It sounds as if Compressor is squeezing the image anamorphically which what you'd expect for placing a 16x9 image into a 4x3 frame. If you've told the DVD authoring program (which one are you using?) that the footage is 16x9 then the DVD should play correctly - widescreen on LCDs or plasmas and letterboxed on 4x3 TVs. However, you should ask the broadcaster for specific delivery specs. Besides letterboxing you also have the option to do a center cut if the footage was shot to allow that.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.2, Motion 4.0.2, Comp 3.5.2, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.2)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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David Gill
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 9:32:47 am

This is everything I can find about delivery from the technical specification sheet:

"The aspect ratio for the commercial must be 16:9 full height"

"All commercials should be delivered in 16:9 Full Height aspect ratio, shot and protected for 14:9"

"All commercials must be delivered in 16:9 anamorphic format shot and protected for 14:9 - AFD6"


Do you think this means I can just supply them with a 720x405 file?

I would ask them but their technical guy is off at the moment.

Any help greatly appreciated!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 2:35:35 pm

[David Gill] ""The aspect ratio for the commercial must be 16:9 full height""

That's anamorphic (FHA, or full height anamorphic). So use the geometry tab, set the frame size to 720x576, Pixel Aspect to PAL CCIR 601 (16:9). No croppping, no padding.

[David Gill] "Do you think this means I can just supply them with a 720x405 file?"

No.

Jeremy


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David Gill
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 2:45:12 pm

"[David Gill] ""The aspect ratio for the commercial must be 16:9 full height""

That's anamorphic (FHA, or full height anamorphic). So use the geometry tab, set the frame size to 720x576, Pixel Aspect to PAL CCIR 601 (16:9). No croppping, no padding.

[David Gill] "Do you think this means I can just supply them with a 720x405 file?"

No.

Jeremy"

>>>Hi Jeremy.

Thanks for this. I've applied the setting that you have mentioned. Will the broadcaster "unsqueeze" this as it still looks a little squished.

Many thanks


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 2:50:58 pm

[David Gill] "Will the broadcaster "unsqueeze" this as it still looks a little squished."

Yes, it is squished. Keep it that way, the broadcaster will know what to do with it as they asked for it as FHA.

Jeremy


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Rafael Amador
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 3:57:13 pm

I don't knoW who is complicating the things.
Fallow what Jeremy says here:
[Jeremy Garchow] "That's anamorphic (FHA, or full height anamorphic). So use the geometry tab, set the frame size to 720x576, Pixel Aspect to PAL CCIR 601 (16:9). No croppping, no padding.
"

YOUR PICTURE WILL LOOK DISTORTED IN QT BUT THAT IS OK.
On play the pixels will be read as Anamorphic and will look OK.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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keith mcgregor
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 12, 2010 at 7:54:32 pm

Did you try just dropping your sequence in a 720x576
sequence and scaling it down until the footage fits with
With black bars on top and bottom? Then it'll
look like its widescreen in its native format. I
do this all the time with hd footage and looks
great!

Reality? What did you make it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 1:52:59 pm

Look in the geometry tab of compressor and you will find the padding option. You can set the letterbox there.


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David Gill
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 2:00:58 pm

Thanks, hadn't noticed that.

So do you think I should submit a 720x576 with PAL CCIR 601 (16:9) pixels then add padding set as 4:3 (L:90 R:90)?

I've just exported a 720x405 with square pixels and it looks like it should do (i.e. everything is in proportion) but going off the specs I posted earlier, does it sound like the network will accept these dimensions?

Wow this all got very confusing all of a sudden.


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David Gill
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 2:17:38 pm

Just tried 720x576 with PAL CCIR 601 (16:9) pixels then add padding set as 4:3 (L:90 R:90) - Looks horrible. Even more squeezed.


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matthew bradshaw
Re: 720p 16:9 to SD for broadcast
on Sep 13, 2010 at 4:07:37 pm

Hi. 720 by 576 is correct. If you are viewing it in a 4:3 frame then it should look squished, that is the anamorphic bit of FHA (Full Height Anamorphic). They will know what to do with it. Who are you supplying it to? I freelance for many broadcasters here in the UK and may be able to get you a name to talk to. Did they specify a codec?
You could ask them for a file and then use the function in compressor to drop a file into a new setting which copies the parameters. Here is a link to the itv delivery guidance doc. Page 19 gives you a visual idea of how squished it should look. http://www.itv.com/documents/pdf/Technical%20Requirements%20for%20Commercia...
Good luck, Matt.



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