FORUMS: list search recent posts

Advice on upgrading to HD

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Donald Sellers
Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 6, 2010 at 7:46:45 pm

Hi,

I've had a death grip on the standard definition world for as long as I could, but now I have a HD project and it seems well past time to join the rest of the world. I am pretty much a one-man band, creating graphics, editing, and mixing myself. The new project I need to manage was shot in DVCPRO HD 720p (anamorphic). I've transferred all the footage over to my drives, and I am finding rendering and such fairly slow. I need a new Mac Pro, and am considering other improvements such as a capture card, a better monitor, and setting up a RAID. I could use some advice on how much bang/buck I'd get from different upgrades or approaches. Thanks!

Late 2005 PowerPC G5 (has PCI Express), 2 CPUs, 2.3 GHz
OS X 10.4.11
6.5 GB memory
CalDigit FASTA-4e 4-port PCI Express eSATA Host Adapter
Bunches of 750MB and 1GB drives operating as JBOD
NVIDIA GeForce 6600
DELL 2405FPW
DELL 2005FPW
Sony PVM-14M2U standard def studio monitor
Sony DSR-11 deck
Relevant software: FCP 6.0.6, Compressor 3.0.5, DVDSP 4.2.1, Color 1.0.4, Soundtrack Pro 2.0.2After Effects 7.01, Photoshop 9.0.2, Illustrator 12.0.1

Don Sellers
http://stourwater.com


Return to posts index

John Fishback
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 6, 2010 at 8:13:05 pm

If you search for "HD upgrade" in this forum you'll find a lot of info. You'll find various drive makers to your left and right on this page. All are reputable. For monitors checkout FSI. They often have an ad running, but I didn't see it today.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.2, Motion 4.0.2, Comp 3.5.2, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.2)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 6, 2010 at 8:21:44 pm

DVCPro is anamporphic, but it doesn't really seem to ever be called that. You'll see FCP doesn't consider it anamorphic in the format. It applies the right distort just by knowing it's DVCPro I guess.

Anyway, you could work in a DVcPro HD sequence, and everything would work smooth but you'll find that graphics get a bit stairstepped due to the "anamporphic" nature. Perhaps only an editor would notice.

If you aren't going broadcast, work in a ProRes LT sequence. Half the data/storage and looks great. Don't know if it's available on G5.

A little overlooked recent feature of FCP is to mix different render resolutions in the same timeline. It used to have separate render caches you could flip between, but now you can go to your sequence settings and change the render rez to say 25% and you'll be flying. And in HD it's still pretty legible for rough work. Drop the frame rate to 50% and you'll render twice as fast again.

You've got a decent G5. It's as good as early MacPro's with FCP. FCP still doesn't really take advantage of all the processors and RAM, so spend a TON of cash and you'll probably see a 20-40% increase. So now your 5 hour renders are 3 hours. If you're like me, it's still going to be overnight either way. So when the system just doesn't have the horsepower, I find using the low rez renders is the simple answer. Then do a full rez render when you're done overnight or at lunch or whatever is appropriate.


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 6, 2010 at 8:25:55 pm

[Bret Williams] "If you aren't going broadcast, work in a ProRes LT sequence. Half the data/storage and looks great."

No...do NOT. Work in a DVCPRO HD sequence. Why change the codec?

You don't need to upgrade anything. I was editing DVCPRO HD 4 years ago on a G5 Dual 2.0 Ghz and did fine. If you are rendering, there might be a problem. You shouldn't have to render the footage if you have a DVCPRO HD sequence that matches the footage. Well, you'll render if you add effects, but that's it. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't get a new machine. Not until you are required to work in ProRes. That requires an Intel. DVCPRO HD is a very easy codec to work with...G5 is fine.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 6, 2010 at 9:14:44 pm

Well the whole nature of his problem is graphics and rendering.

But same as LT I guess if it ain't broadcast and will probably end up on a DVD, keep it DVCPro HD as it will end up anamporphic widescreen anyway and any benefit of ProRes or ProRes LT will be lost.

I was mixing up a couple points. So scratch the LT. And I agree, keep the machine until you have to change.

And geez, I wouldn't bother with zillion dollar broadcast LCDs if you're not going broadcast either. Use a good vizio or whatever via HDMI and a Matrox MXO2 product. Matrox has a good edge with the HDMI in that it has a decent calibration tool. You also won't have to buy something with SDI, which would be unneccessary if you me, everyone is bringing you P2 cards or footage from a 5D or Varicam already converted to ProRes.

FWIW I'm using an early MacPro and a GRaid hooked up via FW800. Also internal SATA drives maxed out. MXO2 mini for HDMI to Vizio monitor. I also have my old PVM 20" hooked up to the SD out of the Matrox to see SD output. Most of my stuff is corporate to DVD or HD projection and the occasional local broadcast.


Return to posts index

walter biscardi
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 8, 2010 at 3:20:18 am

[Bret Williams] "But same as LT I guess if it ain't broadcast and will probably end up on a DVD, keep it DVCPro HD as it will end up anamporphic widescreen anyway and any benefit of ProRes or ProRes LT will be lost."

I delivered over 40 episodes of "Good Eats" to the Food Network in HD before switching over to ProRes. Graphics, animations, you name it, all done in the DVCPro HD codec. We delivered 66 episodes in all. We still deliver DVCPro HD timelines to network from time to time.

DVCPro HD is fine for network broadcast HD and it renders pretty darn quickly too on older machines.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index


Bret Williams
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 8, 2010 at 4:29:03 am

It's great. But I'll bet I could see the stairstepping on your graphics.


Return to posts index

walter biscardi
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 8, 2010 at 1:37:02 pm

[Bret Williams] "It's great. But I'll bet I could see the stairstepping on your graphics."

Yep and I'll show you stairstepping on graphics on every single channel on our DirecTV at home too.

I'll also show you some stairstepping on our ProRes timelines as well.

You need to look directly at the computer monitor or get up close to the 50" plasma screen to see it. Sitting at a normal distance from the screen and even project up onto a 50' projection screen in a theater, I don't see the stairstepping.

The point is you will see it the absolute worst in your edit suite when you look at it up close on a color critical reference monitor. By the time it gets home, onto bluray, whatever, it's simply not very noticeable.

Is it there? Absolutely. Has it ever caused us a problem or a rejection from a network or client? Nope.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index

Chris Linke
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 6, 2010 at 9:27:59 pm

[Shane Ross] "Not until you are required to work in ProRes. That requires an Intel."

I wouldn't say "requires." I work with ProRes on a PowerMac G5 (Late 2005) with no problems.

Chris Linke
PRC Digital Media
http://www.prcdigital.com


Return to posts index


Donald Sellers
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 6, 2010 at 9:20:37 pm

Thanks for the tips, Bret. One of my favorite phrases is: "You don't really have to spend the money."

Don Sellers
http://stourwater.com


Return to posts index

walter biscardi
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 8, 2010 at 3:17:26 am

[Donald Sellers] "The new project I need to manage was shot in DVCPRO HD 720p (anamorphic)."

Pretty much all HD cameras are anamorphic. 1280x1080 (1920x1080) 1440x1080 (1920x1080) and 960x720 (1280 x 720) Most NLE's are intelligent enough to play them back full raster.


[Donald Sellers] "I've transferred all the footage over to my drives, and I am finding rendering and such fairly slow. I need a new Mac Pro, and am considering other improvements such as a capture card, a better monitor, and setting up a RAID. I could use some advice on how much bang/buck I'd get from different upgrades or approaches. Thanks!"

Rending is the only place that will kill you with the old processors. But when I started delivering "Good Eats" in HD for the Food Network, it was off a Dual Proc G5 and I did a full DVCPro HD workflow from start to finish. Network loved it.

Any Mac Pro that's out there today will be a huge improvement in render speeds. Pick the one you can afford and remember you need to put at least 1GB of RAM per core for an efficient machine. So look at the prices and buy the most you can afford.

If you want to use Apple Color for color enhancement, pick up the ATI 4870 at minimum. If you want to invest in Davinci Resolve, pick up the nVidia FX 4800 card. I'm testing out Resolve right now and quite honestly it's showing me just how good of a color enhancer Apple Color really is. I can do the same looks in both applications no problem.

RAID, look at Maxx Digital, Small Tree, Dulce and Sonnet. All make great products and get a RAID 5 array. I recommend a minimum of 8TB these days. Prices are cheap and if you think you'll use 4TB of storage in your work, double that amount for what you buy.

Flanders Scientific is hands down the best monitor company out there right now. Quality of the end product and the service is outstanding.

If you need a capture card, look at the AJA Kona LHi. Won't help with the rendering speeds, none of them will, but gives you a great picture to the monitor and all sorts of realtime conversions.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index

Donald Sellers
Re: Advice on upgrading to HD
on Sep 8, 2010 at 3:05:16 pm

Thanks to you, Walter, and the others who have generously provided me with some extremely useful information and tips. I'll research all the suggestions further and intend to make a move within a couple of weeks. I appreciate the help, all!

Don Sellers
http://stourwater.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]