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30p for green screen

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Chris Anderson
30p for green screen
on Sep 2, 2010 at 6:03:01 pm

I'm about to shoot interviews on green screen tomorrow with my HVX200. In the past I've used 1080i and it worked well but am curious if 30p would be better?
The rest of the video clips are all 1080i HDV from the client so my overall sequence in FCP will be a 1080i HDV sequence set to render with prores.

So I will most likely take the green screen video and add the key in it's native format and then export as prores to bring in the HDV sequence.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Chris Anderson

Chris Anderson


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 2, 2010 at 6:09:52 pm

If you want the motion to match, shoot what you've been shooting all along. You gain ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE by shooting progressive over interlaced.

Those individuals who claim there's a difference have probably never dealt successfully with interlaced video since they started chroma keying, and consider interlacing as some sort of black art. It ain't: you light it well, you maintain adequate separation between subject and background, You expose the image properly, you maintain the proper field order throughout the process, and you use a good keyer.

Success ensues.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Brian Pitt
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 2, 2010 at 8:12:50 pm

I disagree with Dave. I have shot multiple interviews on greenscreen shooting both interlaced and progressive. I have a much easier time pulling a key under identical lighting conditions when I shoot progressive. I use Keylight in AE. Just my 2 cents...

Brian


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 2, 2010 at 8:17:22 pm

Gee, how then did we ever do good-looking chroma keys digitally before the advent of progressive-scan cameras?

I was pulling nice keys on tight shots of people wearing glasses -- where you can see the chroma-key background in the lenses -- fifteen years ago, when the only thing available was interlaced video.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Brian Pitt
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 2, 2010 at 8:23:53 pm

I don't doubt that you were pulling great keys with interlaced footage. I am just saying that in MY experience, it is easier to pull a key with progressive footage. Break it down to the basics. If you are shooting progressive, each frame is like a still photo. Edges are going to be more consistent than they are with interlaced footage. Sure, you can deinterlace, but that degrades the footage and defeats the purpose. If you get better results keying with interlaced footage....then BY ALL MEANS! But Chris wants advice on the topic and I'm letting him know what I've found through trial and error.

Brian


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Mark Suszko
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 2, 2010 at 9:52:14 pm

Dave, those great keys you were pulling, back in the day, when puppies were the oldest animal alive, what color space did you use; 4:2:2, or 4:1:1 or worse? Because analog-based keys often WERE better in the beginning than DV-based keys could aspire to.

I agree that the proper lighting and exposure of the key is moer important than if it is progresive. I will say that where I have a choice, I prefer 30p over 24p. More is, well, more. And if you don;t nee dto flm-out, 30 is what "real" TV is most like, IMO.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 2, 2010 at 10:09:59 pm

The point is this: if maintaining the look of the motion is paramount, keying interlaced video is no big deal. The guy's shooting on an HVX 200, so he'll get 4-2-2 color, which is absolutely fine for keying when all other good shooting practices are observed.

I have, never, EVER had problems caused by interlacing when pulling a key. I've had problems caused by crappy lighting and color spill on the subject, but interlacing doesn't figure into that.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 3, 2010 at 1:22:53 am

Use a reasonably fast shutter speed. Motion blur makes pulling a clean key more difficult, and you can always add some synthetic motion blur in post if necessary.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Michael Gissing
Re: 30p for green screen
on Sep 3, 2010 at 3:35:15 am

Whatever you decide Chris, can you also take a short shot either p or i ( the alternate to what you actually shoot) and tell us what you experience with keying. All good to add to the knowledge base.


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