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16mm to 1080i to DVD

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Cory Andrews
16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 26, 2010 at 5:45:34 pm

Hi,

I'm having trouble exporting a film I shot on 16mm and then transferred to 1080i that I want to ultimately end up on DVD and Vimeo. My main headache is a slow tracking shot that makes any interlacing lines really noticeable and annoying.

I see no such lines in my Final Cut timeline but they show up in the Compressor preview window on every fourth frame. When I try to export using Quicktime Conversion to the same format as the source video I get the lines in every frame (the "get info" information on the original movie file I edited with is 1920X1080, Codecs: Linear PCM, Timecode, Apple ProRes 422, Color profile (1-1-1), Totatal bit rate: 144,296. I tried exporting in Quicktime conversion using Apple ProRes 422 HQ).

Compressor also thinks the film is 16:9 when it's actually 4:3.

So, I need help. I want to be able to fit this on a DVD with some other films and upload it to the net. I wouldn't mind if it was just big enough to fit on it's own DVD.


Thanks a lot,
Cory


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Michael Sacci
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 26, 2010 at 5:57:26 pm

[Cory Andrews] "Compressor also thinks the film is 16:9 when it's actually 4:3."
[Cory Andrews] "I edited with is 1920X1080"
Your movie IS 16:9, the image within that space maybe 4:3 but you are editing 16:9.

What was the framerate of the 16mm, what pulldown method did they use. For best quality the pulldown should be removed to get the footage back to progressive.

You cannot judge quality of the video within FCP, you need an external monitor to see what you actually have. If you can only use FCP's canvas it has to be set to 100% or else it is throwing away 1/2 the scanlines which is why it finds a lot of these type of problems.



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Cory Andrews
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 26, 2010 at 6:13:41 pm

Thanks for the response.

I filmed at 24 fps. The guy who transferred it said if I wanted to reverse telecine I should worry about A frames. But I am watching my footage back at 100% and I see no interlacing at all or repeated frames that come with 3:2 pull down. I tried reverse telecining but everything came back choppy, I think it's actually progressive.

I'll try figuring out reverse telecining it again since Compressor is telling a different story but what should I do with this movie after that point? What's the best way to export it to get the file sizies I want without it looking like garbage?


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Michael Sacci
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 26, 2010 at 6:22:08 pm

Well if it is 1080i it is not progressive, if there is pulldown there has to be redundant and interlaced frame.

How did you do the removal? Compressor? How are you monitoring it? If you delivery is DVD and the web you want to be editing 24p. This needs to be done before you start editing.


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Cory Andrews
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 26, 2010 at 6:32:51 pm

Alright, so I had it 99% apparently, when I went to 100% now I see them.

I'm operating under a strict deadline, I can't reedit. I did the reverse telecine through cinema tools. I'm using a newish apple computers monitor.



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Cory Andrews
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 26, 2010 at 6:41:37 pm

I had it at 99%, now at 100% I see them.

I have no time to reedit. I was using cinema tools to reverse the pulldown. I tried it several different ways and couldn't get it. I'll keep trying.

Any other advice for just getting this done?


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Michael Sacci
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 27, 2010 at 12:42:14 am

If you are trying to reverse telecine an edited piece I don't think you are going to have any luck. Every time you edit a clip you are changing the cadence of the pull down. Each clip needs to be done separately.

Quick fix is to just deinterlace the entire timeline (do a short test) compressor with frame control can give you the best quality but takes the longest time. Then encode the m2v as progressive. This may help but you are not fixing the problem as much as hiding it.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 27, 2010 at 1:32:54 am

Compressor's reverse telecine feature detects and processes broken cadence automatically - I'd try that first before de-interlacing.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Cory Andrews
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 27, 2010 at 1:44:29 am

I was going to reverse telecine the original movie file then hide it from Final Cut. When Final Cut asked me to find it I would link it to the new file which has been reversed telecined.

I guess the problem then is I editted a 30 fps file and the one I'm linking it to will be 23.98 fps.

I'll also try the reverse telecine in Compressor again. It got kind of choppy results in the end when I did that but maybe the file was just too big for the computer?

Thank you again, both of you, for all your help.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 27, 2010 at 3:45:41 am

[Cory Andrews] "I was going to reverse telecine the original movie file then hide it from Final Cut. When Final Cut asked me to find it I would link it to the new file which has been reversed telecined. I guess the problem then is I editted a 30 fps file and the one I'm linking it to will be 23.98 fp"

You're right, the different timebases will be a problem.

[Cory Andrews] "I'll also try the reverse telecine in Compressor again. It got kind of choppy results in the end when I did that but maybe the file was just too big for the computer?"

Choppy how? If you step through frame by frame, does it correctly process the broken cadence?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Cory Andrews
Re: 16mm to 1080i to DVD
on Jul 27, 2010 at 4:23:49 am

I've lost the original file so I don't know why it was choppy.

So I guess my best option is to go ahead with this and re-edit as necessary.

Thanks for the help.


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