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Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output

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Ben Blankenship
Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 4:55:04 pm

I am the associate editor on a feature film here in Portland, and currently the primary steward for the film's progress as the head editor is now off of the project.

Here is the problem: Final Cut Pro is incorrectly rendering audio. We are creating mixes within our scene sequences, music, sfx, vox, etc. Then creating a nested sequence for the full length version of the film. Inside the individual scenes, final cut regularly plays audio incorrectly, either cutting out, playing audio that is not in the timeline, ignoring automation, jumping around in volume, etc. I have found quick fixes by deleting audio render files, bring audio clips back in from bin, and re-drawing automation.

NOW: Final Cut Pro, on outputting quicktimes has begun to screw up long segments of audio in the output. The subsequent quicktime will have audio drop outs that last for nearly twenty minutes, with blips and crackles and audio jumps. I go back to the sequence and everything plays fine. These errors are embedded into the quicktime, before compression and after.

About the project: All footage was shot as RED 4K, then rendered into Apple ProRes Proxy files for an offline edit. Dialog/On set recording was done in-camera and output as .wav along with the RED conversions using Final Cut log and transfer. Music is Linear PCM .aif's. SFX are .wav's taken from a SFX library. Sequence is 2048x 1152, Pro Res Proxy, 48k audio with 24 bit depth.

The mac is a Power Mac running OS X.5.8. 16 gig RAM, 2 x 2.8 quad Intel Processor.

Final Cut Version: 7.0.2

Can anyone help me trouble-shoot this problem? If I cannot trust FCP to render audio correctly, I'm going to be watching a two hour film every time we do a work in progress output. Thank you!


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Shane Ross
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:12:05 pm

Why are you nesting? What happens when you don't nest?



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Ben Blankenship
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:28:57 pm

I am nesting because that's how the project was initially set up by the head editor. He did it, I assume, because it is a two hour film and dealing with a two hour sequence with every clip and cut in it would be very unwieldy. Creating a new sequence with ever part of the cut un-nested is really not an option.

I can do tests without nesting, but FCP has been rendering incorrectly in the scene sequence as well, which are not nested. So, that really does not help me. Thank you!


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Final Cut Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:41:00 pm

[Ben Blankenship] "...it is a two hour film and dealing with a two hour sequence with every clip and cut in it would be very unwieldy..."

Well, that doesn't mean that individual scenes can't be cut in their own edit timelines to keep things simpler, then copied and pasted into a final edit timeline, complete with all effects and adjustments. Such a system goes very, very far in cutting down on Final Cut Pro weirdness caused by nesting sequences, especially on long-program-length projects.

Since you're the person in charge now, you could give it a shot and see what happens, right?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Ben Blankenship
Re: Final Cut Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:54:55 pm

Also, the render errors exist in Non-Nested sequences, too. I am aware of FCP's finicky nature with nesting, but I've never seen an error of this magnitude before.

I am seeing it mis-rendering files across the board, in nested sequences, non-nested sequences, and exported files.


Thanks Again!!!


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Shane Ross
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:51:04 pm

[Ben Blankenship] "I assume, because it is a two hour film and dealing with a two hour sequence with every clip and cut in it would be very unwieldy. "

Nope. I have cut 4 feature length docs and never nested. 90min to 134min. No issues.

[Ben Blankenship] "Creating a new sequence with ever part of the cut un-nested is really not an option. "

Why not?

[Ben Blankenship] "but FCP has been rendering incorrectly in the scene sequence as well, which are not nested. S"

Go to the USER PREFERENCES in the FCP menu, and in the GENERAL tab, set your REAL TIME AUDIO MIXING to 32 tracks...or 48. See what that does.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Ben Blankenship
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:56:48 pm

As I said before, The head editor will be back on for final output, making a redesign of his workflow not an option.

I will try to do the preferences adjustment you suggested. Thanks!!!


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Doug Beal
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:36:23 pm

You state that this is the offline. What are your online plans?
If you go into a scratch system for example you will need an EDL
The way FCP handles a nest is that a sequence dropped into a sequence becomes a single event.
your setting yourself up for trouble.
If you have to have sequences per scene 'cause someone is demanding it at least copy and paste the scene sequences into a master sequence and make markers your friend.
Did the now "off the project editor" design the workflow?

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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Ben Blankenship
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 5:49:03 pm

Yes, that is exactly what we are doing. We will be doing final outut utilizing XML's, Crimson, and Redcine.

Once edit is locked, a new master sequence will be created including all of the scenes content, outputting an XML, and then creating final output using Crimson and Redcine.

The workflow was designed by the head editor who is now off the project. I believe that once final output is ready, he will be back on to manage it.

My problem is not the workflow. It is Final Cut's rendering. I appreciate your input on my workflow, but it is not my call to start redesigning it. I have had my questions about his choices, too. But, he is the lead editor and I am the associate editor.

Any thoughts you have on the rendering issues will be greatly appreciated.


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Doug Beal
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 6:13:34 pm

I understand...fair enough. Old guys react to things they see that concerns them.
You have tried trashing your prefs etc? If not make some notes about your settings and use this
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/pref_man.htm
If you have done that..
If you can get to one sequence that will not playout the mixes you have made and preferably a short one
turn off half the audio tracks and test again. if that works turn on a pair of tracks at a time until it doesn't work that will be your offending track.
if turning off half the tracks still doesn't yield success continue turning off half of them and obviously the offending tracks will be in the group you turned off last. it may be corrupt waveform cache files which won't let you place keyframes or a bad clip. It sounds more like prefs tho. or not enuff realtime tracks enabled

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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Ben Blankenship
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 6:24:13 pm

Thanks!!! That's all great advice. I did trash the prefs and changed the "Real-Time Audio Mixing" from 8 to 32 tracks, and I got a successful output!

I won't know the extent of the improvement until editing a little further in the individual scenes, but so far, this has proven extremely helpful.

Also, I will mention your workflow suggestions to the head editor once he comes back on for final export. I have been apprehensive about final output for the very reasons you mentioned, and I have been planning to make a new master sequence just as you have suggested when that time came.

I really appreciate you taking the time to address my issues.

Best of luck,
Ben


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Doug Beal
Re: Final CUt Pro Rendering Incorrectly in Timeline and on Output
on Jul 9, 2010 at 6:42:14 pm

Glad you got it resolved. now that it's working pref manager can make a backup for you that you can restore at will, not if prefs get corrupted but when. Good time to create a backup, when it's working.
best of luck with your project

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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