FORUMS: list search recent posts

Problems with Apple ProRes 422

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Don McVey
Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 8, 2010 at 8:52:19 pm

Hey Everyone,

New to this forum. Looks great. Anyway, just got FCS 3 and I'm having a few issues. Wanted to enter this competition:

http://uktv.co.uk/dave/homepage/sid/8312

The download files are compressed H.264. I imported them into FCP and tried to find a suitable timeline. I then realised that FCP doesn't support H.264 very well so thought I'd make all the clips ProRes. I did a test by changing a few of the clips in Compressor to ProRes 422 (LT).

I then tried to take this clip into FCP and find a suitable timeline setting but no matter what I did, the message pops up saying that the clip is not suitable for the timeline and asks if I want to change timeline settings to match. I do this and the clip is annoyingly unrendered. It might have something to do with the fact that I can't get the resolutions to match. Compressor seems to keep the source resolution and FCP doesn't have a preset for this.

I eventually used media manager to change all the clips to ProRes (LT) in FCP itself. I still annoyingly get the message saying the clips don't match the timeline when I put the 1st clip in but at least they are rendered.

Am I doing something really obviously wrong? I'm worried now as I'm shooting a music video next week on an EX1 and Canon 550d. I had intended to make all files ProRes 422 in compressor but now I'm worried all the clips will be unrendered.

Any help at all will be very gratefully received. I'm not a big tech head so please feel free to answer me like you're talking to your Gran.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 8, 2010 at 10:03:51 pm

Open one of your converted movies in QuickTime, then hit command-I. Take a screen shot of the window that pops up and post it here.


Return to posts index

Don McVey
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 8:28:40 am

Thanks for your help guys. Here's a snapshot of the quicktime info after I've converted it in Compressor:



Gary - I'm quite new to log and transfer as I've mostly edited with tape in the past. I thought you needed to transfer from a card for this to work, like an SxS or SD card? I actually tried to do the log and transfer with the clips I downloaded, but they are just files in a folder. Here's the message I get when I try:



Thanks for all the great help!!!



Return to posts index


gary adcock
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 8, 2010 at 11:54:08 pm

[Don McVey] "he download files are compressed H.264. I imported them into FCP and tried to find a suitable timeline."

Ummm
this is what one uses FCP's log & transfer for. It allows FCP to properly convert the files to ProRes for you.

By just importing the file, you did not allow FCP to internally handle any issues during the conversion.



gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Technology Development
Quality Assurance Assistance

Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



Return to posts index

Tom Brooks
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 1:08:32 pm

The files are provided on a web site. Not something you could L&T.
They are all 720x432, which is not a standard aspect ratio. I guess I'd use Compressor to convert them to a standard Prores sequence format. Probably in the PAL 720x576 16:9 format, since they are 25fps files.

You will need to copy the Advanced Format Conversions/Apple ProRes for Progressive Material preset in Compressor and customize it to do what you want. Change the audio from Apple Lossless to Linear PCM at 48kHz. Frame Controls ON. Geometry tab, change the output size to 720x576 and the Pixel aspect ratio to PAL CCIR 601 16:9.


This will distort the picture slightly, but it looks like they are squished to begin with, so this won't hurt.
Once the converted clips are in your bin, you will probably have to manually click on the Anamorphic check box (Select a clip, CTRL-click, Item Properties, Anamorphic, click the check ON.

The conversion should work as 16:9 anamorphic with no rendering required in the timeline.


Return to posts index

Don McVey
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 1:13:10 pm

Thanks for the great response Tom. I'll try that and get back with results.


Return to posts index


Don McVey
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 2:39:06 pm

Thanks Tom. That seemed to work great. Quick question. Why change the audio and what does changing the Fram Controls to ON do? Also is this method better than using the media manager in FCP itself?

Have a few other questions. If I shoot on a Sony EX1, am I best to edit with this format natively or convert it to ProRes. If I do edit natively and want to add some canon 550d H.264 footage to the timeline later, will this be a big problem. Basically, can you edit EX1 native footage and Prores in the same timeline?

Final question. I'm going to back up any raw footage from cards on external drives but what's the best way to back up the actual FCP project once I start to edit? I don't need to back up that often, just every few hours or so. Can I just copy the entire project across onto an external drive if I've put all media, waveforms, autosaves etc in one project folder?

Sorry for all the basic questions but I'm a cameraman first and only just got my own editing setup.


Return to posts index

Tom Brooks
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 3:23:33 pm

Why change the audio.
I guess it may not be strictly necessary, but Apple Lossless is not a standard format for any camera or broadcast specification, so I think it's wise to convert all of the media to the specs of a format that is known to work in Final Cut's real-time framework. Not converting would be asking for trouble.

Media Manager vs. Compressor
I feel I have more complete control over the process in Compressor. I believe turning frame controls on results in a better quality transcode in this case. I'd set the resizing to Better.

I don't really know the EX-1 workflow. It's a long-GOP format, right? If you can transcode to ProRes during Log & Transfer, by all means do it. Then the 550D footage will mix very well.

If you need to work in a native EX-1 workflow, the ProRes clips from the 550D should also work with it. Just keep an eye on how the clips scale. I'd work with the same frame rate on both. When you're done, you can change the compressor on the finished sequence to ProRes to reap the full benefits on the 550D footage and any titles and graphics in the timeline. Basically you'd be forcing all your EX-1 clips to render to the higher quality ProRes codec. You won't gain anything on those clips but you will on the Canon clips and titles/graphics.

Your backup strategy is basically sound. Backup the things you can't easily replace.


Return to posts index

Don McVey
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 3:31:39 pm

Great Tom! Really appreciate the advice. I do have one more question that just popped into my head.

If I'm shooting with an EX1 at 1080/25p and also want to do some slow motion at 720/50p, will both those pieces of footage go into the same timeline if I set the timeline to 1080p?

Also will FCP automatically make the 50p clip slow motion if the timeline is set to 25fps?

This stuff really confuses me :(


Return to posts index


Tom Brooks
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 4:46:53 pm

The 720p50 footage will probably drop right in and will work to an extent. Final Cut will scale the 720 up to 1080. It will not slow-mo. I believe it drops every other frame to make the p50 play at 25fps. Try it and see how it looks.

To get slo-mo you need to use Compressor to conform the p50 to p25. You use the Retiming pane and set duration to 200%. Can't think of a better way unless Sony makes their own Frame Rate Converter like Panasonic does. The Fast/Nearest Frame setting should be OK.

BTW, I jump in on things I know about, but I always welcome backup or corrections from guys like Jeremy. His advice to leave the aspect ratio of the clips alone is probably a good rule of thumb to start with. Your call.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 4:52:02 pm

[Tom Brooks] "To get slo-mo you need to use Compressor to conform the p50 to p25."

An easier way to do do this is to take the 50fps QT movie, open it in Cinema Tools, hit conform and choose 25.0. This will payback the 50fps at 25fps and take a fraction of a second to complete. You can duplicate the original 50fps file first in case you are nervous about it, but if your forget to duplicate, you can always go back in to Cinema Tools and conform back to 50.0. This is a lossless process and simply rewrites the heard info so the footage plays back @ 25.

Compressor will be a transcode.

Hope all that makes sense.

Also, this is how I would setup Compressor:



Jeremy


Return to posts index

Don McVey
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 10, 2010 at 4:09:15 pm

If I shoot at 720/25p and then set the overcrank in the EX1 to 50fps, will that not give me slow motion footage in camera? I thought that if I put this into a 25fps timeline in FCP it would automatically be slow motion.

Just like I imagine that if I shot at 1fsp, I'd get a timelapse. I am wrong here?


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 10, 2010 at 4:39:38 pm

Not sure how the Ex1 works, but if it has overcranking and allows 25pN similar to how Panasonic cameras wok, then yes as the frame rate will already be 25. But if you shoot 50 over 50 (as opposed to 50 over 25) then you have to conform manually as the frame rate will be 50.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Problems with Apple ProRes 422
on Jul 9, 2010 at 3:45:58 pm

While Tom's advice is good, I would keep the files letter boxed. I would add padding. That will keep the weird aspect ratio of the files (albeit with letterbox). You can always crop that out at the end.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]