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christoph helms
mixing different sources together (HD/SD, i,p, pal ntsc)
on Jun 28, 2010 at 2:09:24 pm

Hey guys,

I recently had a very complicated edit process. I was supposed to edit a showreel for a production company and got all kind of material to begin with (PAL, NTSC, interlaced, progressive, HD, SD)
The most part of the footage was uncompressed PAL, interlaced so i decided to make my timeline 1024x576, upper field first, pal

Because of time issues i couldnt convert any of the progressive material and so i was forced to just start editing right away. I ouput the material as a pro res version and he was happy with it.
When I look at the finished shoreel now there are obviously the interlace lines on fast movement for a majority of the clips. but some are definately progressive clips. I had major issues with a project like that before where we exported the finished video to digibeta. when we played it back on digibeta half of the film was stuttering, the parts which had the wrong field dominance i reckon...

What I wanna know basically is how you guys handle mixed footage. In the apple documentation it only said that "Final Cut Pro is not the best environment for converting one field-handling standard to the other." (http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutstudio/workflows/index.html#chapter=5%26section=3%26tasks=true)

But when i have time pressure and have to do everything in a final cut sequence how would i get the progressive material to be interlaced? does that even make sense or is it often better to work with a progressive timeline and use the de-interlace filter on the interlaced clips... and when exporting to tape to re-introduce interlacing? I'm confuesd :) Thanks for any help on this issue...


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Rafael Amador
Re: mixing different sources together (HD/SD, i,p, pal ntsc)
on Jun 28, 2010 at 3:46:07 pm

[christoph helms] "The most part of the footage was uncompressed PAL, interlaced so i decided to make my timeline 1024x576, upper field first, pal "
To work in 1024x576 Square pixels, only makes sense if you are making a web video with that size (16x9), but in that case, it doesn't makes sense to do it Upper-first, but Progressive.

If you are going to DigiBeta youu have to work in 720x576.



[christoph helms] "I had major issues with a project like that before where we exported the finished video to digibeta. when we played it back on digibeta half of the film was stuttering, the parts which had the wrong field dominance i reckon... "

What was stuttering was probably the NTSC or HD footage in PAL sequence. A time-base issue, not an matter of interlacing.



[christoph helms] "
But when i have time pressure and have to do everything in a final cut sequence how would i get the progressive material to be interlaced? "

Progressive footage works without problem in any interlaced scene. No need to re-interlace nothing.

Christof, you can not mess around with footage of different time-bases. You need to convert it to a common one. And careful of the field order of your stuff.
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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christoph helms
Re: mixing different sources together (HD/SD, i,p, pal ntsc)
on Jun 28, 2010 at 4:20:07 pm

thanks for taking the time to respond, rafael. it's good to know that progressive footage wont cause any probelms when being mixed with interlaced video and exported to digibeta..

i chose 1024x576 because it was supposed to be shown on the website. the other reason for preferring it over anamorphic is that anamorphic is a pain to work with, no quality will be lost when transferring this project to digibeta, you just gotta nest the sequence in a 720x576 project.

i'm still unsure about these two things:
1. When I resize interlaced pal footage to HD the interlaced lines are resized as well right? do de-interlace filter still work correctly then? even if i keyframe the scale?

2. when i appy a de-interlacer like jes de-interlacer on a mixed footage (i,p that is) will the de-interlacer falsely de-interlace the progressive footage?

well, i guess i make it more complicated then it is, right? maybe i just have to tell the client that i have to convert and prepare the footage first before editing... ;)


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Rafael Amador
Re: mixing different sources together (HD/SD, i,p, pal ntsc)
on Jun 29, 2010 at 6:47:29 am

[christoph helms] "i chose 1024x576 because it was supposed to be shown on the website. the other reason for preferring it over anamorphic is that anamorphic is a pain to work with, no quality will be lost when transferring this project to digibeta, you just gotta nest the sequence in a 720x576 project. "
I don't agree.
You start with PAL Anamorphic pixels, then you convert them to Square, and for Print to tape, you convert them back to PAL Anamorphic. You are degrading very much the picture.
I don't know why you say that working in Anamorphic is a pain.


[christoph helms] "1. When I resize interlaced pal footage to HD the interlaced lines are resized as well right? do de-interlace filter still work correctly then? even if i keyframe the scale?
"

In FC the filters are applied before the motion tab effects (size, crop, speed,..), so the picture is de-interlaced prior the re-sizing.



[christoph helms] "2. when i appy a de-interlacer like jes de-interlacer on a mixed footage (i,p that is) will the de-interlacer falsely de-interlace the progressive footage? "
Right. You de-interlace a picture that is already progressive. This degrades the picture unnecessarily .

Christof, what you have mostly to take care is about the footage time-base. You can mix in FC every kind of sizes, codecs, field-order footage..but don't mix footage with different time-bases. FC makes a bad job.
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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