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720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts

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mike simpson
720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 11:43:42 am

This is just one problem we are having with trying to do an HDV online version of something that has originally been edited in SD DV PAL.
There will be more questions to come as we confront things.
Media manager doesn't seem to working as expected so we have managed to create an offline version of the projects with offline HDV clips by exporting batch lists form the SD version.
We have yet to try and create a 720P50 timeline so more on that later.

This specificproblem is an issues capturing the 720P50 material.
Our most recent problem is that FCP fails to capture any material that has a start timecode ending in an odd number. Even ending timecodes capture fine.
It appears to be an issue with our BR-HD50 deck in that while i watch the display it never actually shows odd timecodes.

Can anyone shed any light on this little problem?

as always...any help or ideas will be appreciated.

Mike


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Tom Wolsky
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 12:28:22 pm

What recorded this? I don't know any HDV camera that shoots in 720p50. That would be an HDV tape based camera that records at 50fps. Is there such a thing?


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Phil Balsdon
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 12:58:32 pm

JVC HD201E / 251E both shoot HDV 720 50p.

I would assume it's from one of these as the BR-HD50 is a JVC deck.

If you still have access to the camera you might try importing from that. If it works you know the problem is with your deck, if not it's on the tape. The deck you can probably get repaired, if it's tape you'll need to find a work around.

Wondering why the project was off-lined in SD PAL though when HDV files are around the same file size as SD.

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


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Tom Wolsky
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 1:12:51 pm

Very cool. JVC has done some great work with the HDV format. Much better than Sony in my view.

And I agree, really no point in offlining to PAL.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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mike simpson
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 3:01:44 pm

Thanks for reading the original post.

The footage was shot on JVC GY-HD251 cameras over here in PAL land.
We started to shoot this prior to owning any intel machines so at the time were not capable of ingesting the 720P50 HDV material so we downscaled the footage from the deck - you can select this in the menus and output SD over component. FCP was not capable of editing HDV 720P50 material at the time either.

It was then captured at DVPAL resolution.

Now that we do have the ability to edit at 720P50 HDV we want to!

For the time being we have decided to alter the in points of our media by 1 frame to get over this little hiccup but our next issue is going to be creating the SD DV PAL sequence but in 720P50.

If anyone has any clues how to do this I'd love to hear it.
Like I mentioned at the top Media Manager doesn't seem to behave properly. I would expect to be able to create an offline version of the project and select HDV as the new compression settings but FCP doesn't seem to want to do this hence looking for workarounds.

Again...any help is truly gratefully received.

Mike


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Tom Wolsky
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 3:13:13 pm

"FCP doesn't seem to want to do this"

What happens when you try to do it? Can't you select the HDV 720p50 preset? What version of the software are you using?


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Rafael Amador
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 5:21:47 pm

That camera is very peculiar and probably uses some tricks to use the mechanisms and electronic designed for 1080.
I think that some how each Frame works like a field in a 1080 format (when recording on tape, when streaming), so you have to work always with pairs of frames. As you can not manage single fields in 1080, you can not manage single frames in 720.

Pure hypothesis, but..
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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mike simpson
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 5:46:23 pm

@Rafael - Interesting theory. Not sure how we can confirm that.

@Tom - I'm actually away form the office now so will have a look at what message FCP came up with when the media manager method didn't work.
The version of FCP is, I believe, the newest available and installed on a dual core intel macbook pro.
It was something to do with the selected format was 50P but the original was 25 so it couldn't complete it and would keep the new settings at 25 - which was pretty much useless!

I'll be sure to post on here in the morning when i get chance to look at the project. I have plenty of other work to be getting on with so it may not be first thing. We have a couple of i7 27" iMacs turning up tomorrow so may well shift this project over onto one of those to get going with.
Thanks for your interest in this.

Mike


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Tom Wolsky
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 24, 2010 at 6:40:38 pm

That doesn't seem right. You should be able to create offline to any format at all, especially 25 to 50.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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mike simpson
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 25, 2010 at 3:09:00 pm

Right...we just installed FCP/Studio on our 27" iMac so we definitely up to date with all software.
Here's what we have tried to get an offline version of the SD project to a 720P50 offline version:

Media Manager
Create Offline
Set Sequence to HDV 720P50

clicked ok

then got this warning:

Frame Rate Conflict Error
The frame rate of the preset chosen to reset your new offline sequences to differs from items in your selection.
The preset's frame rate will be ignored, and the original frame rate of the items in your selection retained.

Abort or Continue....we aborted

So - what is the point in media manager if it cannot do this?

Any more ideas?

Mike



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Tom Wolsky
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 25, 2010 at 3:54:43 pm

Not good. I can't think of any good way, short of exporting an XML file and hacking it to change the frame rate and frame durations. But it wouldn't be fun and have a high element of risk. The only other option is to manually recapture and build the two projects side by side. Good luck.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Rafael Amador
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 25, 2010 at 4:07:56 pm

[mike simpson] "The preset's frame rate will be ignored, and the original frame rate of the items in your selection retained.

Abort or Continue....we aborted"

I would say "Continue' and see what happens. You don't gonna burn your Mac for trying.
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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mike simpson
Re: 720P50 firewire capture - cannot capture odd frame number starts
on Jun 25, 2010 at 4:30:21 pm

We selected continue before and just ended up with a project set at 25 frames per second so it was useless.

It's the weekend now so I'm outa here! Not got any intels at home so can't try anything while away.

I think i may have to start a new thread next week as the title of this is unrelated to the current issue.

Thanks for keeping an eye on this.

Enjoy your weekends...if you get to have one!

Mike


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