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40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?

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bernardo alvarez
40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?
on Jun 15, 2010 at 12:46:41 am

one of our clients shot on varicam DVCPro HD. Handed us 4 tapes....the first three at 30fps and the last one at 40fps. when i saw the label and asked the client he said it was to achieve the same "slo mo" look as in film when you shoot at high fps and convert down to 29.97
We have a DVCPro HD1200A deck. hooked up via firewire. I am trying to capture it using the 720p 60 capture preset. But i think whats happening is the deck is stripping off 10 frames, because A) it doesnt look slo mo, and B) the deck only shows the TC counter going up to 29 frames before it changes seconds. when i hit the "counter" button on the deck, it gives me the user bits and other info...i can see that the tape is 40 fps....but thats just the deck recognizing the tape as being 40fps, but again...its just playing it back at 29.97...and i think its just trashing the other 10 frames because i dont see a slo mo effect. I tried digitizing it, and it comes in fine....and when i throw it into a 29.97 sequence it doesnt do much but playback at its normal speed.
2 questions....
1) should 40 fps REALLY look that slo mo ? even if it was shot on film ?
2) are there any DVCPro HD decks that would play it back at native 40fps and let me digitize it so final cut can convert it on the timeline ? at least then i know im doing it right.

any help is much appreciated.


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Tom Wolsky
Re: 40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?
on Jun 15, 2010 at 2:11:50 am

40fps is nothing. It's not going to achieve the effect of slomo in film, which is usually done with high speed cameras shooting 200fps or more. Why didn't he at least shoot 59.94fps? That'd do a better job.



All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?
on Jun 15, 2010 at 2:34:45 am

Use the 720p30 setting for Dvcpro HD and fcp will remove the proper frames.


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Chris Tompkins
Re: 40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?
on Jun 15, 2010 at 12:23:33 pm

ya 40 isn't going to do much. When we shoot on the Varicam for a slo-mo shot we shoot @ 60fps. You'll have to apply the speed change in the time line.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?
on Jun 15, 2010 at 4:17:18 pm

[Chris Tompkins] "When we shoot on the Varicam for a slo-mo shot we shoot @ 60fps. You'll have to apply the speed change in the time line. "

You shouldn't. If you are working in a 24p or 30p timeline, you capture with that easy setup (or use the VFR settings if capturing with a Kona) and the slow motion is captured properly. It is the more manual process of capturing slow motion from tape based cameras, similar to what happens when using tapeless cameras and shooting in a pN mode. The footage is already conformed after capture. No reason to do any post processing.

Jeremy


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bernardo alvarez
Re: 40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?
on Jun 15, 2010 at 4:24:41 pm

so here is what we figured out, and this is what the client had intended under reccommendation from the DP.

used the 720 60 capture preset and let the deck playback the footage at 29.97fps into the final cut. and just to clarify...this did not do a slomo. the footage looked normal speed. then took it and copied it into a new project and used the DVCProHD frame rate converter tool inside final cut, and had it turn the footage into 29.97
and i got a very nice slo mo effect.

go figure....i guess 40fps DOES give you a slow mo effect. quite a substantial one.

thanks to all those who gave me their input.

Best,
B



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 40 Frames Per Second ??!?!?
on Jun 15, 2010 at 4:27:43 pm

Exactly. This way you are conforming after the fact by using the DVCPro HD FRC, which is a valid way to do it.

You can capture the VFR data in real time with a Kona card, or use the 720p30 (not 720p60) easy setup.


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