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Why does 24pA footage captured with 2:3:3:2 pulldown still look bad?

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Austin Reedy
Why does 24pA footage captured with 2:3:3:2 pulldown still look bad?
on Jun 6, 2010 at 9:11:50 pm

I've gone through a million tries and cant figure this out.

the captured footage says its in 23.98, but still reads with the 29.97 fps code, i assume this makes sense b/c that's how its shot, so the pulldown should just remove the frames that didn't need to be there. but why does the footage still look bad? i have bad lines around sharp colors, especially red, and periodically the lines will have the jagged look as if its still in 29.97.

can someone give me specific capturing settings to double check why mine aren't working?

Austin Reedy
Freelance Post
Austin, TX


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Shane Ross
Re: Why does 24pA footage captured with 2:3:3:2 pulldown still look bad?
on Jun 6, 2010 at 9:28:45 pm

[Austin Reedy] "the captured footage says its in 23.98, but still reads with the 29.97 fps code, i assume this makes sense b/c that's how its shot, so the pulldown should just remove the frames that didn't need to be there"

Correct. If you step through you will see frame numbers missing.

[Austin Reedy] "but why does the footage still look bad?"

What do you mean "still?" If it looked bad before, why would it look better if you remove the frames? And what do you mean by "look bad?" Stuttery? What? Are you too used to smooth video that 23.98 looks bad to you?

[Austin Reedy] " i have bad lines around sharp colors, especially red, and periodically the lines will have the jagged look as if its still in 29.97. "

OK...that's the DV codec...frame rate has NOTHING to do with that. Removing the pulldown will not make DV look better.

Shane



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Austin Reedy
Re: Why does 24pA footage captured with 2:3:3:2 pulldown still look bad?
on Jun 6, 2010 at 9:58:03 pm

ok, that's what i've been hoping to hear. i assumed it was a frame issue because it almost looks like certain areas have frames slightly apart, but its a good chance it just looks bad i suppose. it looks that way when viewed through the deck, although that's not a good option because everything looks bad that way. i'm going to pump out a test dvd soon to see how it looks after getting it out of fcp, and hope that some of the issue is resolved that way. otherwise its just got weird color bleed and so it goes...

Austin Reedy
Freelance Post
Austin, TX


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Michael Sacci
Re: Why does 24pA footage captured with 2:3:3:2 pulldown still look bad?
on Jun 7, 2010 at 1:20:35 am

???
[Austin Reedy] " although that's not a good option because everything looks bad that way"
Sounds like you have poorly shot footage.

Going to DVD will make things worse, DV (especially bright reds) get blockier under m2v encoding.

The only way things may get better is if you are not viewing the footage and an external monitor.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Why does 24pA footage captured with 2:3:3:2 pulldown still look bad?
on Jun 7, 2010 at 3:12:55 pm

You know what I think? I think you tried capturing an entire tape using advanced pulldown removal. Or perhaps multiple shots as one clip. Either way, it's bad.

If I'm wrong, you can stop reading this right now, because it has no bearing on your problem. But if I'm right, you've got some recapturing to do, sir.

The heart of a DV camera is the tape transport. It's a MACHINE. It can fall out of adjustment, and it doesn't take much to subtly screw up things like time code and pulldown cadence. You wouldn't even notice when playing back the tape.

When shooting, do you think the photog ever reviews a shot, changes batteries, turns the camera off and on or ejects and reinserts the tape? Any one of these can screw up the timecode and pulldown cadence if a tape transport isn't 100% up to snuff.

And when capturing using advanced pulldown removal, FCP reverts to capturing at 29.97 if it encounters ANY kind of disturbance in time code or pulldown. See any recipe for disaster there?

The fix? Batch capture individual shots ONLY. Make sure the in & out points are set within the shot. It's the only no-fail way you'll be able to capture and remove pulldown in one step.

Of course, if you're going to say, "Well, that's just too much work," you can keep doing what you're doing and get the same results. However, that sounds too much like one definition of insanity: doing the same thing over & over again, but expecting different outcomes.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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