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walter biscardi
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 12:22:36 am

The Sky Is Falling, The Sky Is Falling!!! Run for the Hills!!!

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Michael Gissing
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 12:27:11 am


More rumor and guesses based on job adverts. All my hardware is compatible with alternate software products (apart from a graphics card swap) so I can go Smoke, CS5 or AVID if Apple want to drop the ball with FCP.

However, I continue to use the tools and wait and see. I chose FCP six years ago because it was to be compatible with the majority of my clients. If that changes, so do I. I no longer use an Aaton, Nagra or Steenbeck. Things change.


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Aaron Neitz
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 12:53:33 am

It would be Adobe's chance to shine. Or maybe Avid to stage a comeback.

The only reason we left Avid was FCP provided a functional product at a fraction of the cost. If Avid had been more nimble we would have never left.

However would be a bit of a bummer if it turns out true.

Let's hope we don't have to start migrating back to Windows to run our software :)






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Craig Seeman
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 12:55:58 am

I'm not sure how improving the interface equals prosumer. I don's see that substantiated at all in the rumor. Advanced Professionals like easy to use interfaces too. It's features that define professional use. Are they going to suspend supporting professional cameras? No Red support? Remove XDCAM support? Is the $1000 Studio going to replace the $199 Final Cut Express with a radical price cut?



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Les Kaye
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 1:02:38 am

Maybe I need to improve my reading skills, but I took the last few sentences as meaning "Don't panic", and that ProApps development would still continue.

But then that's just me...

http://www.leskaye.net


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Craig Seeman
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 1:33:47 am

I'm not sure how improving the interface equals prosumer. I don's see that substantiated at all in the rumor. Advanced Professionals like easy to use interfaces too. It's features that define professional use. Are they going to suspend supporting professional cameras? No Red support? Remove XDCAM support?



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Craig Seeman
Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 1:36:09 am

Don't believe everything you read. The next release will be kickass.


On May 18, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Craig Seeman wrote:

Hi Steve,

Rumors like this are not good for professionals. Interface improvement is certainly critical but professionals features (or the lack of development of such) will cause some exodus. I do wish you'd say something to give professionals a reason to stay with Final Cut Studio.

Apple scaling Final Cut Studio apps to fit prosumers
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/18/apple_scaling_final_cut_studi...

Regards,
Craig Seeman
3rd Planet Video






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Michael Gissing
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 2:09:06 am


Congrats. You got a personal cut & paste comment that Steve has been circulating for the past month. It is the same comment that was reported here at the Cow -
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1083582#1084282


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Craig Seeman
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 2:11:56 am

He changes the wording slightly. I've seen the other responses. He's certainly doing positive marketing. It's not like he's going to write epic prose.



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Michael Gissing
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 2:16:43 am

[Craig Seeman] "He's certainly doing positive marketing. It's not like he's going to write epic prose."

And it's not like he's going to write anything that spooks the horses, or actually informs. Empty rhetoric is not positive marketing. Face it, the response means nothing.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 2:24:40 am

Generally he delivers on his promises. At least the Apple customers think so.
I've only seen two kinds of responses from Jobs in the media. Blunt or silence.



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walter biscardi
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 12:26:30 pm

[Craig Seeman] "
Generally he delivers on his promises. At least the Apple customers think so.
I've only seen two kinds of responses from Jobs in the media. Blunt or silence."


What is very interesting about all of this is the fact that he, or at least someone in Apple authorized to email for him, is even responding at all. Wonder if all that A & A buzz from NAB and the overwhelming silence from his A actually resonated in Cupertino.

I'm trying to recall the last time I've heard of him responding to personal emails regarding products. Maybe they actually "got the message" up there that A & A are serious about knocking his A off the high horse and they need to respond in kind.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Craig Seeman
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 12:40:28 pm

Steve/Apple has been responding to email since a few months before NAB regarding various products.

I think it's basically a new marketing/PR strategy in response to various negative rumors. Steve/Apple knows that anything coming from him is going to spread quickly.

My own guess is that a given negative rumor might generate scores or even hundreds of emails. They probably pick a half dozen or so and Steve jots down a quick response, wording slightly different for each and it's sent using the sjobs email address. The slight differences probably lets them know who's doing the spreading for them. The can measure the effectiveness that way.

The emails have been tracked back to various devices inside Cupertino. There were a few last month that were from an iPhone running 3.1.2 for example. These leads me to believe he's probably responding directly but I suspect they're being filtered because I can't imagine he's reading hundreds. I suspect he's getting just a few representative emails forwarded to him and responds, usually with a sentence fragment or two of 10 words give or take.

I think Apple decided that in some cases silence is bad for business so they're usually terse positive responses allowing the viral internet to take its course. It's specific to NAB. It's clearly (to me at least) a new PR response approach to negative rumors.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 3:55:25 pm

[walter biscardi] "I'm trying to recall the last time I've heard of him responding to personal emails regarding products. Maybe they actually "got the message" up there that A & A are serious about knocking his A off the high horse and they need to respond in kind. "

E-mails from Steve Job's account seem to have become more frequent over the last 12-18 months. The first one I really remember is from '08 when the Macbook update removed all the firewire ports and Steve Job's allegedly responded to a complaint via e-mail where he basically said that for the past few years no new cameras released used FW.


-Andrew


3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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Shane Ross
Re: Steve Jobs responds to my email
on May 19, 2010 at 2:09:23 am

Hmmm...since RED is pretty heavily in bed with Apple in terms of workflow...since Avid doesn't have a clear path, nor does Adobe...this wouldn't make sense. RED isn't a Prosumer camera...

Since AJA is a pretty big partner, and they ONLY make professional gear, and mainly for FCP...this move wouldn't make any sense. It would pretty much cripple AJA, and I don't see that happening.

BMD and Matrox have other partners, but they are pretty heavily into Apple too...

Again with the rumors that make no sense. RED support ALONE makes this a ridiculous statement...

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Dennis Radeke
RED workflows
on May 19, 2010 at 3:40:11 am

"Hmmm...since RED is pretty heavily in bed with Apple in terms of workflow...since Avid doesn't have a clear path, nor does Adobe...this wouldn't make sense."

Well, I would respectfully disagree. REDuser.net has forums that talk about several workflows including Adobe and Avid.

Adobe supports native R3D files, fractional resolution playback and integrates source settings from the RED SDK such as kelvin, RGB, ISO, exposure, etc. FCP does none of these things. Premiere Pro CS5 can play back a RED 4k native file on my laptop in real-time. Granted it's probably at 1/8th resolution, but with 4k material, it still is great for making edits. Think of it - real-time proxies with the original media - no waiting! Sony Vegas does most or all of the same as well. I can't speak for Avid, but I know they have some level of RED support as well.

Point being that I don't think it reasonable to make an assumption that RED only works with FCP - far from it.

Back to the topic at hand - I believe FCP will continue to be a pro product.


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Shane Ross
Re: RED workflows
on May 19, 2010 at 3:52:15 am

I didn't mean to say that it ONLY works with Apple. But it was pretty much designed from the get go to. Now others are playing catch up. And doing well.

Fine...whatever. Tired of all this rumor carp. Talk all you want. The ProApps aren't going anywhere.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Illya Laney
Re: RED workflows
on May 19, 2010 at 6:13:18 am

Some of your Premiere features are old news for FCP.

-I was editing proxies in realtime almost 3 years ago with FCP. That's what the M and P proxies are for.

-RED Alert creates RSX files that can update the proxies in FCP immediately(while in the timeline). Other RED apps expand on this. Hit command + tab and it's as quick as applying an effect.

-You can import look presets based on the metadata and apply them if you use the log and transfer workflow.

-Color has full access to the metadata via the RED Tab in the primary room. How often do you need to change kelvin on the fly within your NLE anyways?

...but I agree, Pro apps aren't going anywhere. Here's a good read...

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2010/05/18/why-apple-insider-couldnt-be-more-...

Here's another one on the Mercury Engine...

http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2010/03/29/adobe-premiere-cs5-with-merc...

Google how much that system costs.




Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Dennis Radeke
Re: RED workflows
on May 19, 2010 at 12:03:10 pm

Hi Illya,

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make which was that FCP wasn't the only company doing decent RED integration/work.

Let me also clarify a couple of other bits from your response.

"I was editing proxies in realtime almost 3 years ago with FCP. That's what the M and P proxies are for."

Yes I know, but with Premiere Pro and others, you're able to use the original R3D media all the time on any system including laptops. Why use proxies when you can always use the original media and get the same performance? ;-)

You can import look presets based on the metadata and apply them if you use the log and transfer workflow.


Yes, but are they non-destructive - are they burned into the pixels? Can they be applied to clips after they've been logged and transferred? I don't know the answer to these questions for FCP, but I do for Premiere Pro.

Color has full access to the metadata via the RED Tab in the primary room. How often do you need to change kelvin on the fly within your NLE anyways?

That's great and clearly Adobe does not have a deep grading tool like Color inside of it's NLE.

Philip's post is a nice one - thanks for the link.

The second link is also very nice but obviously written prior to the shipping of CS5. I am the 'Dennis' mentioned in the article ;-) and my usual RED demo for CS5 is on a laptop. It works just fine.

Your implied asperity that to do what Adobe does costs an arm and a leg is misleading and also misses the point. Adobe is the first company to have a 64-bit native (cocoa) non-linear application on the Mac and we're the first and only company that allows creative artists to harness their GPU to enable workflows that were either difficult or impossible before. That's good news for users. Competition is good and if one tool isn't doing it for you, then there are others.

Again, my point here was to mention that there are lots of choices and that specifically with RED workflows, there are a number of good ones. Finally, in today's content creation, most people are using any number of suites (Apple, Adobe, etc.) to create content and so it's important to remember that the best opportunities are for enabling users to seamlessly move media back and forth between their applications. With things like XML and AAF, users have something that approaches easy.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: RED workflows
on May 19, 2010 at 6:28:57 pm

You don't really "get the same performance" editing native R3Ds. I can't STAND editing when playback goes all blurry like Adobe has demo'd.

I don't know of an editor worth their salt that "doesn't mind" blurry playback and good quality on the freeze. It throws me out of my pacing. Do you?

Kevin Monahan
60 Blu-ray Templates for Final Cut Studio 2009
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author - Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro

Dennis Radeke
Re: RED workflows
on May 19, 2010 at 7:20:37 pm

"You don't really "get the same performance" editing native R3Ds. I can't STAND editing when playback goes all blurry like Adobe has demo'd.

I don't know of an editor worth their salt that "doesn't mind" blurry playback and good quality on the freeze. It throws me out of my pacing. Do you?"


If by performance you mean 24 or 30 fps, then the answer is yes, you do get the same performance.

If you mean by clarity of image, then consider this. With 2K material at quarter resolution, you're getting 500 lines of resolution, better than SD. With 4k material at eighth resolution, you're getting 500 lines too.

Of course, I'm stating the obvious in saying that if you want to adopt a workflow with the RED proxies in Premiere Pro, we've been able to do that for some time.

In the end its a choice for the user and neither one is wrong. However, CS5 with 64-bit native, with GPU and with fractional playback gives the user more choice within the NLE and within any given workflow. That's what Adobe is really focused on - delivering good solutions that can work by themselves OR with FCP and AVID.

Be well.



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Illya Laney
Re: RED workflows
on May 19, 2010 at 7:33:42 pm

Haha, small world.

"you're able to use the original R3D media all the time on any system including laptops."

I was forced to use my 3 year old black MacBook to edit R3D M proxies on set a while back. Set the timeline to unlimited rt, video to dynamic quality, and there you go. You're editing RED via FW 400 on a 3 year old Macbook. Don't knock it until you try it. haha.

The proxies in the RDC folders all reference or point to the original R3D's contained within, so you're using the original media. Did you think I meant transcoding the footage?



Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Gary Hazen
Uh Oh
on May 19, 2010 at 3:42:20 am

Out of curiosity I googled some of the companies you mentioned.

Here are the results:

AJA - the home page mentions Adobe CS5 and Avid. No mention of FCP.
http://www.aja.com/

Matrox video - the home page mentions "solutions for Avid and Adobe CS5". No mention of FCP.
http://www.matrox.com/video/en/home/

Blackmagic Design - Mentions Adobe CS5. No mention of FCP or Avid MC.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/?nab=12

Looking at these web pages it's difficult to tell how much investment these companies have in FCP. Are they "all in" as you imply or are they hedging their bets?


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Michael Sacci
Re: Uh Oh
on May 19, 2010 at 4:06:58 am

[Gary Hazen] "Looking at these web pages it's difficult to tell how much investment these companies have in FCP. Are they "all in" as you imply or are they hedging their bets?"

That is because the home page is for info that is NEW, AJA for the longest time was only for FCP with the Mac boards, same as the others, now they work well with CS5 and Avid, and they are the hot news right now. But look at AJA's Ki Pro and the Io HD, what is the codec they are built around... yes FCP's ProRes. That is saying a lot.

the Next release of FCP will rock, it will be 64-bit, it will unlock multi-processors in FCP, take advantage of the graphic cards similar to Adobe's mercury engine.

This business has apps leap-frogging one another, at this time Adobe and Avid are in the lead, that's all fine and good. Next release FCP will probably take back the lead. This is a good thing for all of us. I have never understood why FCP people get pissed at Premiere doing something better. If it does and you need it use it, or wait and FCP will do it within the next release. We all win in the game as long as we stay away from pissing contest.

There is no way FCP Express is something that Apple cares too much about and I would bet it sells more FCS over Expresses. There is no need to dumb done pro apps, and I don't see apple doing that. FCS sells systems (as well as their other pro apps) Express doesn't, express is an add on sale to a system. A system is a need add on to a new release of FCP, not in every case but in a lot of cases.





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walter biscardi
Re: Uh Oh
on May 19, 2010 at 11:17:29 am

Wow, if you're basing your decision on that, you better jump ship immediately. After all, Avid and Adobe both has major introductions at NAB while Apple did not. I wonder why Apple isn't mentioned on their home pages......

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Matt Lyon
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 3:26:10 am

All this article does is show the cluelessness of Appleinsider.

"Scaling FCP to Fit Prosumers." -- what does this even mean? Has everyone forgotten that FCP has been Prosumer since v1.0.

Does anyone remember the "DV revolution,"?!? FCP + Firewire + Canon XL1 was the killer combo that got a lot of people to switch. That's a pretty Prosumer setup in my book.

Nothing wrong with that. The great thing about FCP is the flexibility and scalability.

All that these job postings mean to me is that Apple is thinking the current "look and feel" of the ProApps is getting stale and they are looking for a next-gen UI.

If these people are just being hired now, it will take YEARS for their efforts to make it into the products.

Just my two cents,



Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Carsten Orlt
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 4:43:41 am

the jobs mentioned weren't posted recently but in Jan 2009. Go and search yourself...

so much of being an 'insider'


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Shane Ross
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 4:49:38 am

Phil Hodgetts has a VERY well thought out response:

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2010/05/18/why-apple-insider-couldnt-be-more-...



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 5:13:23 am

[Craig Seeman] "Generally he delivers on his promises. At least the Apple customers think so.
I've only seen two kinds of responses from Jobs in the media. Blunt or silence. "


But Jobs doesn't make promises. Apple doesn't share its roadmap. If anything Steve Jobs helming Apple has a history of silence, like you said, and misdirection (ex. Jobs saying things like they aren't interested in getting into the already crowded mobile phone market or that they don't see why anyone would want to watch video on the iPod's tiny screen).

Rumors can be a fun distraction sometimes but I'll save my judgments for when the rubber meets the road.


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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walter biscardi
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 11:19:32 am

[Shane Ross] "Phil Hodgetts has a VERY well thought out response:

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2010/05/18/why-apple-insider-couldnt-be-more-....."


This is a very good response and it's still in Apple court to deliver. We still don't know exactly what Jobs calls "Awesome" and "Kickass" since I can't recall the last film he edited on his own.

But we'll all just have to wait and see what path we go down next. I'm glad to know that my entire infrastructure can switch to any of the A's pretty easily so if what Apple does release is underwhelming, it's easy enough to switch. But it would have to be VERY underwhelming.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Mark Petereit
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 2:09:39 pm

I'll side with Steve Jobs on this one.

Some of the biggest gripes I have with FCS is the lack of continuity in the UI (understandable considering their individual pedigrees) and an ingest workflow that seems to be troubling to a lot of new users. Apple is famous for the practically magical way things "just work" -- log and capture just doesn't seem to fit with that ethic.

Imagine a FCS where all the UI elements are Apple-elegant and everything you plug in "just works".

Mark


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The future of FCP
on May 19, 2010 at 3:45:46 pm

If Apple can streamline the UI to enable editors to be more productive w/o sacrificing power or flexibility more power to them. What I don't want is a 'dumbed-down' interface or program.


-Andrew



3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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Jeremy Garchow
From KickAss to Awesome
on May 19, 2010 at 9:00:47 pm


CNET has this.

Jeremy



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walter biscardi
Re: From KickAss to Awesome
on May 19, 2010 at 9:14:06 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "CNET has this."

Wonder if Apple is going to attend NAB next year. They sure are responding uncharacteristically quick to the rumor mill.

Good.

The other A & A have Apple's attention. That's good for all of us running FCP.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Devin Crane
Re: From KickAss to Awesome
on May 20, 2010 at 4:33:02 am

Gearing FCP for consumers or even for prosumers makes no sense whatsoever, they already have iMove. Why make another?

Maybe all the buzz will light a hotter fire under their butts to get it out sooner.



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Mark Petereit
Re: From KickAss to Awesome
on May 24, 2010 at 1:52:59 pm

This is why Steve Jobs isn't too worried about competition from Adobe.

Adobe After Effect CS5 has some issues on Mac


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: From KickAss to Awesome
on May 24, 2010 at 7:45:02 pm

Supposedly, prores 4x4 alphas aren't working either. Oops


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walter biscardi
Re: From KickAss to Awesome
on May 24, 2010 at 9:18:52 pm

[Mark Petereit] "This is why Steve Jobs isn't too worried about competition from Adobe.

Adobe After Effect CS5 has some issues on Mac"


Keep in mind the same will most likely apply to FCP in terms of the 64bit deal. Any plug-ins you own for FCP / Motion probably won't work when / if the application goes 64 bit.

Not a single one of my current AE CS4 plug-ins will work with AE CS5.
Did find that Red Giant Software does have specific pricing for those who just need to update due to CS5 so that is good.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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