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Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)

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John Ford
Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 14, 2010 at 1:28:18 am

I have annoying horizontal lines across light areas of clips when they fade out to black...

Its really pissing me off.. I found a post and solution here that was close and seemed to help the person who posted the problem, but mine is slightly different.

here is the link of the post i read:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1062242

Anyway, he had the problem getting it to DVD, I have the problem exporting it from FCP..

On my timeline, the lines are very small and only noticeable in 100% in the canvas...

When i export the lines get much more intense and noticeable...

I have tried LOAD of export settings.. I am new to this game, but i got the editing thing down, but its the quality information i am lacking..

The only way i can get it looking any better, is to export s Animation (millions of colors +) it produces alomst a 6gb file and then i use Compressor to get it down...

ANyway, its pissing me off alot..

I have posted a few things here with almost no responses.

Please help me out

Thanx


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 14, 2010 at 2:37:41 am

Way more information is needed about your sequence settings and footage. My guess is that you are editing in an interlaced timeline or using interlaced footage.


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 14, 2010 at 10:26:37 am

Yes ,

The footage is interlaced..

What info would you need to know about my sequence?

Let me know and i will post it..

cheerz mate


j


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Horizontal Lines: YES, it's a field issue!
on May 14, 2010 at 2:47:45 pm

[John Ford] "The footage is interlaced... "

What kind of footage did you shoot: what's the codec? On what kind of camera? At what frame rate did you shoot? What's the frame rate and codec of your FCP edit timeline?

Those are good for starters.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines: YES, it's a field issue!
on May 16, 2010 at 6:21:49 am

Hey..

Ok, I fixed the things with the lines, Its was interlaced sequence settings..

Here's the deal...

I really wanna learn about how to set up the sequence/settings for my projects..

I am editing the footage from out band's show so i just get given the footage from the camera men who film us. Because we perform in different countries every time, its hard to keep the same format, We tell them, but they do what they want most of the time..

This show was filmed with many different cameras and formats, The MAIN camera used was a SONY Z7 and i have an AVI file of it.

Now the only way I know how to see the info of the file is to import it and push Command+9 and read the info..Here is what it says:


Vid Rate: 29.97 FPS
Frame size: 720x480
Compressor: DV/DVCPRO NTSC
Data rate: 3.6 MB/sec
Pixel Aspect: NTSC CCIR 601
Anamorphic: (Ticked)
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
Alpha: None/ignore
Composite: Normal


To be honest, i don't really know the significance of most of that info nor the way it can make or break a project.. I am doing things by eye, and i like it that way, but quality is being lost in my export which means my sequence setting or setting for this project are wrong..

I would really like for someone to explain to me how to set up a project for this camera and its info..

I have other shot from other cameras that i will include in this project, If they require different sequence setting to get the best results would i need to create projects for all cameras and export into one format to work with ...

Anyway, That's enough info for you to deal with already..

Cheerz in advance for the patience and help...

j



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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines: YES, it's a field issue!
on May 16, 2010 at 6:51:25 am

PS another thing..

I set the setting (command+0) to the exact settings as the clips info.. now the image fills the canvas perfectly.. BUT, when i try to export the video is no longer in the shape it was ORIGINALLY or in the CANVAS... Its becomes more square, left and right squashed together..

I tried all difference export settings , Preserve A.R, and sizes... but all come out the same..

Also i notice in the canvas, where you select the % of the size your viewing, the CORRECT FOR ASPECT RATIO is ticked.. When i un-tick it , i see the image the same as the export.. All squashed together..

I have a few versions of this project where i have distorted the aspect ratio in them motions tab, i did it by eye... BUT the video has lost quality...

Hair falling out..

J


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John Ford
De-INTERLACING = PIXELS
on May 16, 2010 at 2:51:52 pm

I have adjusted my sequence settings now to my video..

It exports the correct size now..

Without applying ANY De-interlacing filters, I get a clear image with lines only in fast movements..

When i apply the De-interlace filter. The lives go, but the video becomes EXTREMELY PIXELATED.

I saw this and understood what i meant, but now how i can get around this:

http://www.hqv.com/index.cfm?page=tech.de-interlacing

Guys...What do i do?

John



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John Ford
Re: De-INTERLACING = PIXELS
on May 17, 2010 at 3:28:12 am

STILL desperately wait for some help with this...

Can anyone help me with it?

J


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Dave LaRonde
Re: De-INTERLACING = PIXELS
on May 17, 2010 at 4:03:05 pm

Are you looking at your footage on a VIDEO monitor, and NOT a computer monitor? You can't judge the quality of the video on a computer monitor, and especially with those FCP viewers.

FCP is designed to be used with a video monitor.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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John Ford
Re: De-INTERLACING = PIXELS
on May 18, 2010 at 12:36:39 pm

Its on a computer screen.

I know that fcp needs a video monitor, but that should not matter with this, as i will be online and everyone will see using computers.

Also, These pixels are there when i upload so its not the way i am seeing it in FCP or even my export. They are really there...




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Tajette O'Halloran
Re: De-INTERLACING = PIXELS
on Jul 22, 2010 at 11:35:51 am

Hi Dave,

I was wondering if you could help me also (or anyone out there) i have imported footage into a new project in FCP 1920x1080p25. My quick time files at the source are fine but when i import them into final cut pro there are horizontal lines running through all of the light areas in the footage.

When i go into my sequence settings it is always set to 1080i and there is no option for 1080p. Does this mean i have progressive footage on an interlaced timeline? If so, how do i change this? If not...does anyone know the problem. I have a deadline and i'm kind of freaking out. any help would be amazing right now.

Thanks,

Taj

Tajette


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Dave LaRonde
Re: De-INTERLACING = PIXELS
on Jul 22, 2010 at 1:37:36 pm

[Tajette O'Halloran] "When i go into my sequence settings it is always set to 1080i and there is no option for 1080p. Does this mean i have progressive footage on an interlaced timeline?"

I haven't had to fight this particular battle yet because my footage is always 720p. But I think if you look at the footage in the FCP Browser, you will note that the field order (incorrectly called "field dominance in FCP) is set for upper field first. Change it to None and you should be good. If it's already set to None, try setting it to upper field.

Why would this be so? Because your camera shoots interlaced video at 1080, even when shooting progressive scan. They give it a fancy name: "Progressive Segmented Frame", or psf. There is a difference between interlacing and psf, but when most cameras shoot 1080, I'll be darned if I know what it is.

Some cameras do indeed shoot true progressive scan at 1080. Their price tags are comparable to that of a brand-new Chevy Corvette Z06, camera lens extra. If the price tag on your camera is closer to that of a 10-year-old Toyota Corolla, you're shooting interlaced at 1080.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: De-INTERLACING = PIXELS
on Jul 22, 2010 at 2:42:13 pm

You also have to make sure that the footage itself is tagged as none in the browser and timeline.

Was this captured from tape?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 14, 2010 at 2:48:34 pm

[John Ford] "The footage is interlaced.. "

Then what you are seeing is absolutely normal.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 17, 2010 at 3:36:00 pm

John you are way way way ahead of yourself.

Keep the original sequence settings that you posted. SD video from tape is non square pixel (so it will look squished upon export). When you go make your final file for the web, you will change to a square pixel ratio and de-interlace then. If going to DVD/tape, the 0.9 aspect ratio will remain (non square). For now, just edit interlaced and non square in FCP.

It's the way digital video works.

Jeremy


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 18, 2010 at 12:33:46 pm

Ok...

So when i export i change the pixel ratio to square then export?

I uploaded a few version in the start for this and did not come out well.

I get what your saying but i am exporting my final for the web strait from FCP. I am not doing anything to it after.

do you think that will get rid of the pixels?

Cheerz J


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 18, 2010 at 12:45:29 pm

No, don't change to square.

Let's back up a second. What format do you need to upload and what are people on the other end doing with it?

When you export, what format are you exporting to now and how do you do it?


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 18, 2010 at 1:37:34 pm

hehe, Cheerz for the patience man..

Ok...

For the moment, it will be on our website, and youtube..

I am exporting H.264 (i dont like the faded colors).

FILE>EXPORT>QT CON>

H.264 (high)
The size i have tried different setting but i am exporting 854x480
Preserve A.R (Crop)
DE INTERLACE TICKED

Thats it..

BUT i see the pixels in the canvas before export also..

Ok man,

Cheerz J




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 18, 2010 at 1:53:23 pm

Use compressor.

File > Export > Quicktime Movie

leave make self contained and decompress all frames UNchecked.

Drag that movie in to comprssor and make the h264. Turn on frame contols and make the output fields progressive. Change the frame size in geometry tab to the 16x9 ratio you mentioned an square pixels.

Jeremy


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 18, 2010 at 2:38:07 pm

Let me give it a go !

Back soon


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 7:21:29 am

Ok, I gave it a go..

No luck, Infact its just degraded the image so much its starting to make me laugh, I cant wait to full understand this...Its annoying but some part of me like the learning curve..

Ok, Just so we are all on teh same page again, Here is the info, And the problem AND i have uploaded Snapshots of the problem...

Tell me what you think of this:

VIDEO:

SONY Z7

Vid Rate: 29.97 FPS
Frame size: 720x480
Compressor: DV/DVCPRO NTSC
Data rate: 3.6 MB/sec
Pixel Aspect: NTSC CCIR 601
Anamorphic: (Ticked)
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
Alpha: None/ignore
Composite: Normal

(When i open this video with Quicktime player and push Command+I , It says size " 853x720 " Just to let you know.)


SEQUENCE SETTINGS:

Frame Size: 720x480 | NTSC DV (3:2)
Pixel Aspect Ratio: NTSC - CCIR 601 / DV 720x480 ( Anamorphic NOT ticketed) (When ticked the image becomes too stretched)
Field Dominance: Lower Even
Editing timebase: 29.97
Qucktime Video Settings: Compressor - DV/DVCPRO - NTSC | Quality 100%
Audio : as normal

FINAL CUT:

EASY SETUP:
Format - (all formats) | Rates: (all rates)
Use: Custom setup

AUDIO / VIDEO SETTINGS:

Sequence Preset: DV NTSC 48khz - 23.98
Capture Preset: DV NTSC 48khz Advanced (2:3:3:2) Pulldown Removal
Divice Control Preset: Firewire NTSC
Video Playback: (Missing) Apple FIrewire NTSC (720x480)
Audio: Default


PROBLEM:

RAW VIDEO PLAYED IN Q.T or VLC LOOK GOOS BUT WITH INTERLACING BLUR ( fast movement makes ghost like trailing)

AFTER EXPORT IN FINAL CUT WITH NO DE INTERLACING, THE GHOSTING TRAIL NOW BECOMES HORIZONTAL LINES

APPLYING DE-INTERLACING FILTER ELIMINATES LINES BUT IMAGE BECOMES PIXELATED AND ALL SMOOTH EDGES NOW ARE BLOCKY.


TRIED:

• EXPORTING IN DIFFERENT SIZES and FORMATS
• DE INTERLACING IN FCP ( ODD & EVEN)
• EXPORT SELF CONTAINED MOVIE (Re-compress frames UN-Ticked) AND IMPORT TO COMPRESSOR, FRAME CONTROLS ON & OUTPUT FIELDS PROGRESSIVE, FRAME GEOMETRY : 16:9 OUTPUT


BELOW ARE THE TYPES OF CLIPS RESULTS:

ORIGINAL (NO MOVEMENT):



ORIGINAL (TRAILING IN FAST MOVEMENT):




COMPRESSOR( LEFT is Original images with no De-Interlacing Filter, RIGHT is with De Interlace from Compressor):






I am not sure if these images here will be clear enough to see the problems. If not i will be happy to e-mail them if anyone can help me solve this.

Thank you again for your patience and help with this..

I really dont want to compromise on these clips.

Thank you

John










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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 4:48:15 pm

I am so confused.

Isn't this an HDV camera?

If so, why DV?

853x720 makes no sense at all.

Why are you using the 23.98 advanced pulldown removal setting?

Why are your clips AVIs?

You have a mish mash of different things here that when put together, it equals straight up confusion.

Let's start over.

What is the native format of the camera originals and do you have access to the original media?


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 5:06:19 pm

You know, I flipping knew it..

I told my camera guy to give me the native format it was recorded in, and he gave me these avi's. I aked him " WILL THIS BE THE SAME? " and he assured me that it was going to be.. I should have trusted my gut..


I will try and find the guy and ask him whats going on..

I did not mean 853x720, i meant to type 854x480...sorry if i did that..

But what should the native format of the sonyz7 be? because he is probably gonna try and bullshit me.

I hate when people do this stuff to the unknowing...

The pulldown thing, i dont know why its set, its been since i got final cut a few months back, Like i said before i am new to VIDEO editing..

Should it be HDV?...

Please tell me what settings it should be at...I will try and find the guy..

Thanx

John



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 5:12:29 pm

I googled Sony Z7 and it looks like it's an HDV camera of some sort.

I don't know if this is it or not:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-hdv/product-HVRZ7U/

It looks like it's tapeless, so it can probably record SD or HD.

You have to find out and get the camera original file. Then we start over.

AVIs don't work in FCP very well at all.


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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 6:05:26 pm

Ok,

He recorded to TAPE on the SONYZ7.. He says its HDV native format..

He captured/recorded in from the camera into his PC with Premiere, and then gave me an AVI file..

I dont know, I am really pissed now..

Since the file is not what it should be, i dont know what settings to set.


Anyway.. About the Pullldown thing, what sound all that stuff me set too?

Going on what the footage should be... ?

Thanx


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 6:09:09 pm

I'd stop right now, get his HDV tape and capture it as an HDV or ProRes Quicktime.



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John Ford
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 6:49:01 pm

I will, after a week, of editing and wondering what i am doing wrong, I have the tapes here, but no way to capture them.

I just read this post on DV-Doctor.net:

GUY 1:

With the Sony z7, is Compact flash captured DVCAM in a native format for Final Cut? So it can be dragged from the card to harddrive for direct ingest to timeline?

I've heard it is in either .avi or .dv format (as apposed to .m2t for HDV)


GUY 2:

Hi Yes it is .DV or .AVi format for DVCAM and .m2t for HDV.

Sony have a plug in for final cut studio 2 ver 6.0.2 and above that makes the CF unit appear in the log and transfer window, you then just drag and drop for ingest and it goes in as 3X real time.

Also for HDV it goes in as apple Pro Res.

You can use the sony CF unit or I use a £45 sandisk firewire CF reader for input.

More here:http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowC...Context =true

I love my Z7 it is a perfect camera for me.


So now i dont know whats gone on..

He will speak with a friend of his to help me resolve this..

Thanx alot for follow this so much..

Cheerz man

J


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Horizontal Lines (Not Field issue?)
on May 19, 2010 at 6:54:51 pm

That link pertains to the tapeless function. You said you have tape, right?


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