FORUMS: list search recent posts

Testing 5D footage codecs

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Jonathan Lutjens
Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 1:57:37 pm

Hello all,

I've been trying to find info on a 5D workflow and I'm now diving into it myself. Thought I'd let people know what I'm finding.

Just got back from Eugene, OR with a bunch of fantastic footage (thanks to Andy Cutraro, cutraro.com) and now the edit begins.
I'm finding that while most have suggested ProRes as the codec to use for editing, it seems to introduce some nasty banding. Nothing too harsh, but enough that it's noticeable.

I've tried XDCam on 2 clips and so far, I'm liking it. Much lower file size, no banding and only a very slight loss of saturation. I'm thinking that this one is going to hold up better once I start making some color moves.

Jonathan

I'll try to keep updating my progress (or lack thereof).


Return to posts index

Steve Eisen
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 3:36:44 pm

You do what works for you. I'm staying away from Long GOP!

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


Return to posts index

Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 3:38:50 pm

What's Long GOP?


Return to posts index


Steve Eisen
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 4:33:24 pm

Long "Group of Pictures." Look it up. It's discussed a lot in this forum.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 5:07:04 pm

Converting H.26. To XDCAM? Oy, have fun. Glad it works, but Otis an odd codec choice. Especially since you don't know about it. I haven't seen the banding when converting my Canon footage.

How are you monitoring?

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 5:17:49 pm

Just looked up GOP. Time to exit this media business. Yet another layer of info to remember...
I'm just monitoring on an Apple monitor.
The banding isn't terrible with ProRes, but it's definitely there in certain areas. If anyone has another suggested codec, I'm all ears.

I haven't worked with XDCam much, am I going to have some kind of horrible issue later on down the line?? Right now, it looks good to me.


Return to posts index


Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 7:04:21 pm

Well, so far so good with XDCAM.
By-the-way I'm using Apple XDCAM HD422 1080p30 and the clips have already been transcoded to 29.97 via Cinema Tools.
This is only a 30 sec. spot, so maybe some of the GOP issues people have mentioned won't be a problem for me.

Right now my plan is to do the rough edit in FCP, output to ProRes (unless I'm still seeing banding, and then I'll find something else) and do my post effects/color work in AE (Magic Bullet) and possibly Color.


Return to posts index

Steve Eisen
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 7:20:58 pm

You need to see the final rendered output on a monitor other than your computer. You need hardware for that. AJA Kona 3/io Express, Matrox MXO 2, etc.

You'll have problems. ProRes is what you want to work with.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


Return to posts index

Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 7:57:05 pm

I'm going to get hooked up to a Panasonic monitor in a minute. Got a Kona setup. I'll see how things look on that.

Can you expound on the problems that will come with the XDCAM codec? I haven't run up against anything yet, but like I said this is my first time working with the codec.


Return to posts index


Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 11, 2010 at 8:45:53 pm

Well, I've looked at my ProRes and XDCAM movs on a Panasonic monitor via Kona Card. The differences between the XDCAM and ProRes (visually) are much more slight now that I'm seeing my stuff on an external monitor.

However, I can still see that banding in the ProRes sequence. You probably wouldn't notice it if you hadn't seen it on the computer monitor first, but it's there.

I would rather work with the XDCAM footage as far as the look goes. It's just a little better than the ProRes. Keep in mind that I still have to make color moves and so that banding in the ProRes is likely to get more pronounced.

My question is this. What exactly are the issues I'm going to encounter with XDCAM? If they're extreme, then it isn't worth the slightly better image quality. If they're not extreme, I'm going to continue to work in XDCAM (because it just looks better) and then convert to something else for delivery.


Return to posts index

Neil Sadwelkar
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 12, 2010 at 11:24:46 am

We've converted Canon 7D footage to ProResHQ (not plain ProRes). Colour corrected them in Color. Exported to DPX and printed on film. Film print in a theatre shows no banding.

What happens if you open the ProRes clip and the XDCam clip on the same monitor. Is there banding on the ProRes but not in the XDCam clip when paused at the exact same frame?

That would be interesting. I need to test this out too.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


Return to posts index

Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 12, 2010 at 1:25:38 pm

Thanks for the response, Neil.

Yes, when I open the clips together, you can see the banding on ProRes but not the XDCAM. Now, I'm not using ProRes HQ, but I was told that it wouldn't make a difference on account of my base footage. I would need to have higher resolution original footage in order for the HQ to be effective. But maybe that isn't entirely true. I should also reiterate that it isn't very noticeable (banding). However, this is pre color grading and I'm just wary that the imperceptible banding is going to really show up once I start making some contrast/color moves.

I will say that the difference between the ProRes and XDCAM is less noticeable on an external monitor, but it's still there. I haven't had an issue with playback or anything like that and so I'm still trying to find out exactly what the problems are that I'll be dealing with by using XDCAM. So far, it looks good and works well. Plus, it's only slightly larger than the original H.264 as far as file size is concerned.

I'm not familiar with DPX, what is that?

I'm going to forge ahead with my process today. I'll post any issues. Again, if someone could fill me in on the known problems I'll have with XDCAM, I'd appreciate it.


Return to posts index


Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 13, 2010 at 3:39:38 pm

Ok, I may have found the problem that people were referring to concerning the XDCAM codec.
Someone mentioned having problems with playback in AE (although another post claimed smooth sailing with XDCAM in AE...). It seems that I'm getting that same issue. I'm only able to get about 15 fps with my RAM preview at 50% size and half resolution.

Any suggestions here? I may have found the reason to go back to ProRes, although I'm loathe to introduce that banding...


Return to posts index

Jonathan Lutjens
Re: Testing 5D footage codecs
on May 13, 2010 at 4:09:21 pm

Problem solved. It wasn't an XDCAM issue, it was that I was previewing to an external monitor via the Kona card. Playback was still only 15 fps with ProRes footage and when I switched back to computer monitor only in the video preview options, the XDCAM (and ProRes) was fine.
I guess I'll have to be ok with a half-speed playback for my final color tweaks regardless of the codec.

I'm back on XDCAM.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]