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hdv destined for kiosk 4:3

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chris gorman
hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 1, 2010 at 7:03:38 am

I'll be shooting hdv footage (Sony Z1U), green screened talking head. My client's tech guy says he wants delivery as 4:3 aspect ratio, 720 x 480 mpeg-2 file. He plans to scale it up to 1024 x 768 for the kiosk.

This has worked for him before with footage from another company, and he wants to do the same thing again now rather than risk something different...we are on a tight deadline with no time for problems or troubleshooting if something doesn't work.

I could just shoot and edit dv format 4:3, in order to give him the 4:3 aspect ratio footage he wants. But, I'd prefer to maximize the quality, shoot hdv, edit ProRes 422. That also gives me better quality for doing the chroma key.

The problem is that it would be 16:9 aspect ratio, instead of the 4:3 my client wants. I guess I could shoot hdv but frame it safe for 4:3, capture and edit as dv. But I'd prefer editing and doing the chroma key on an hdv or ProRes file. Any suggestions for best workflow? Is it possible (and advisable) to complete editing and chroma key in Pro Res 16:9 and convert to dv 4:3 720 x 480, compress as mpeg 2 (compressor) and have him still end up with a decent quality when he scales it up?

Also, wouldn't it distort the image if he scales up 720 x 480 to 1024 x 768?

PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 1, 2010 at 12:08:52 pm

Edit in Hd, then in the end downconvert to the size he wants, shoot with that in mind.

It's not easy to pull off chroma keys with HDV recordings BTW. Have you done this before without a problem?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski.

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX Cinema Displays


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David Roth Weiss
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 1, 2010 at 12:35:35 pm

There is no need to whatsoever to transcode to DV or to scale up the video. Both of those ideas seem completely off base.

All you need to do is edit and do your greenscreen in ProRes, then drop the edited material into a custom ProRes timeline that you create at 1024x768. Scale to 100% and reposition the video as desired, you've got plenty of extra pixels for recomposing/reframing. Then export a self contained file and transcode that in compressor to the MPEG file that was requested.

Boom, you're done - no DV, no upscaling, fewer generations, etc., etc., etc.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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chris gorman
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 1, 2010 at 7:38:56 pm

Thank you. After I do my rough cut, I'm handing the footage to my associate to do the chroma key in After Effects. Then he hands it back to me and I add background etc., render, and then, as you suggest, I'll drop it into a custom 1024 x 768 . . . .

My ProRes 422 8bit rough cut sequence settings are 1440 x 1080 etc., and I plan to have the After Effects guy use those same settings on input and output back to me. He will be using the "animation" codec.

We are going to do a test on a sample clip. Is there anything I should tell my After Effects guy?

The other post warns that it's tough doing chroma key on hdv footage. I hope we'll be ok on this. I guess the test will tell us something, but any additional recommendations are welcome.

PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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chris gorman
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 1, 2010 at 9:44:05 pm

In the custom Sequence settings for the 1024 x 768, should I set pixel aspect ratio the same as my original, eg. 1440 x 1080?

I haven't delivered for kiosk before, so just want to make sure there's no rectangular vs. square pixel issue involved.

PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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chris gorman
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 2, 2010 at 9:16:28 am

I can't get a custom seq. 1024 x 768 to do 4 x 3 aspect ratio on my ProRes 16 x 9, 1440 x 1080 clip unless i set it to square pixels, and that squeezes it tall.

Out of desperation, I recaptured the hdv clip from the camera, set to downconvert hdv to dv and crop to 4:3 in the capture process. When I put that into a custom 1024 x 768 ProRes sequence, set for square pixel aspect ratio, it works without squeezing or stretching it.

So, it seems I have no choice - I have to downconvert the hdv footage on the way in. Is there something I'm not doing right?


PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 2, 2010 at 12:13:02 pm

Double click the HDV clip, and change it's aspect ratio so it doesn't stretch the picture, and stay in HD that way.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski.

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX Cinema Displays


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chris gorman
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 7, 2010 at 4:49:40 pm

"Double click the HDV clip, and change it's aspect ratio"
How? The latest way i tried was dropping it into a custom sequence, setting aspect ratio to square, and checking anamorphic.

client also needs small file sizes for the mpeg-2 program stream clips, so that's another challenge.

my tests so far end up (at about 2 MB per sec.) double the size of what he has been using, even when I tested down converting to dv on capture.

PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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chris gorman
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 8, 2010 at 8:00:15 pm

My final output file does not end up as 1024 x 768, intead it's 1366 x 768 or 1024 x 576 when viewed in QuickTime. The only way is get 1024 x 768 is when I do the test with footage originating at 720 x 480.

They don't want black bars on the top or sides when viewed. I'm working with the restriction of not being able to view/monitor or test on their system.

PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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chris gorman
Re: hdv destined for kiosk 4:3
on May 11, 2010 at 3:29:39 am

Pardon the repeat posting of this. I'm still having a problem. Maybe it's hopeless because it was shot 16x9.

My final output file does not end up as 1024 x 768, intead it's 1366 x 768 or 1024 x 576 when viewed in QuickTime. The only way is get 1024 x 768 is when I do the test with footage originating at 720 x 480.

They don't want black bars on the top or sides when viewed. I'm working with the restriction of not being able to view/monitor or test on their system.

I've tried a bunch of different ways now and still no luck. I'd appreciate any further help on this.



PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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