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EX1, HPX170 and FCP

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John Vogel
EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 6:19:12 pm

Hello all,

I'm starting a project that's being shot in the US and UK. We're filming in both 24P and 30P. The 24P footage is being shot with the Letus adapter and prime lenses. My crew here in the US is using the HVX and my crew in the UK is using the EX1. Post is here in the US, FCP, NTSC time lines. My question is this.

While both cameras will shot 1080i-24P, I'm aware that the HPX will shoot with the 2332 pulldown. Can the EX1 do the same? We'll be mixing both 24P and 30P footage in the timelines.

Thanks

John


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 7:25:28 pm

[John Vogel] "We'll be mixing both 24P and 30P footage in the timelines. "

Whatever for? This is going to look like....shite.


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John Vogel
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 7:31:57 pm

It's what the client wants.

I'm looking for answers and not criticisms.


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Shane Ross
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 8:41:09 pm

We are offering ADVICE. We know what looks good and what looks like crap. Clients often don't know. You need to educate them. DO NOT mix those formats if you want something that looks good.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 9:13:32 pm

[John Vogel] "I'm looking for answers and not criticisms."

Sorry bud, nature of your workflow. Do you just do what the client says and hand them something that doesn't look right, or do you do the right thing and advise them properly? You are shooting progressive, so adding/removing pulldown to match frame rates isn't going to be possible when shooting 30p. So you are either going to have to edit in a 1080p60 timeline (which you aren't going to do), a 720p60 timeline (which you could do) or shoot the same frame rate. Now you can shoot 24p with pulldown to edit in a 29.97 timeline, which will match the frame rate, but not motion characteristics of your 30p footage. You can also just shoot 30 or 24p across the board and make it easy on yourself.

I am giving you answers, not criticisms.

Jeremy


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John Vogel
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 9:45:45 pm

Thanks Jeremy, completely understood and your information is awesome. The clients workflow is in 29.97 and am happy to film in panasonic's 24pA mode to accommodate that. My crew in the UK is using the EX1 and I'm uncertain if it can or can't filmed in a 24pA type mode with the 2-3 pulldown added.

I just found this on the sony website:

*In 1440 x 1080/23.98P (SP) mode, images are handled as 23.98P and recorded as 59.94i signals through means of 2-3 pull-down.

It may resolve my pull-down issue but I believe the frame size is now different.

Thanks again Jeremy.


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Shane Ross
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 8:13:30 pm

Don't mix frame rates. Choose one, stick with it.

Both do 24P at 23.98, and both do with the same pulldown. Well, both can get you to 23.98, is that what you want? Or do you want 29.97 with the 24p LOOK?



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Vogel
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 8:45:01 pm

Thanks Shane, After much searching I believe I have the correct solution. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the EX1 does not add the 2-3-3-2 or 2-3 frames as Panasonic does. If it did, then I could keep it all in 29.97 with the 24p look. That would be fine if the EX could do it.


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Dean Sensui
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 10:17:34 pm

As Shane and others have said, mixing frame rates could set you up for unwanted problems in post, and goal #1 is making it work and telling the story.

As for frame rates, shoot with the delivery format in mind. There's not a detectable difference in cadence between 24p and 30p. But converting one to the other could create some undesirable temporal artifacts.

Dean Sensui -- Hawaii Goes Fishing


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Steve Eisen
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 10:35:55 pm

Keep your workflow simple.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Shane Ross
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 11:05:10 pm

DO NOT SHOOT IN 24pA MODE!!!!

Sorry...but if you want to work at 29.97, do not shoot 24pA. That format is for when you plan to remove pulldown and work in a 23.98 sequence. If you are just going to work in a 29.97 timeline, shoot regular 24p. PLEASE.

And shoot tests...to see how things look. ALWAYS shoot tests...

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Vogel
Re: EX1, HPX170 and FCP
on Apr 19, 2010 at 11:10:20 pm

Ha, thanks Shane, I won't. I spoke to a friend at Digital Delux and he filled my head with so much information I got turned around.

What I really need to do is just buy the camera!

Thanks again,

j


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