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Jittery text on DVD Playback

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Matt Dragovits
Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 14, 2010 at 10:01:43 pm

Ok, I just finished authoring my DVD and it looked great on my PC and on standard tv's. However, when I play it back on my bigscreen DLP, there is a section of the movie where I have billboard text that jitters up and down like it can't lock onto the image properly.

I exported 16 bit billboard text animations out of after effects. I applied the flicker filter at a low setting since I didn't want the text to get too muddy. The entire program is SD.

If anyone has any advice on how to try and keep this text clear, I'm all ears. The text itself is a bold font and it's not sized too small. I've had text smaller than this stay crisp when using it for lower thirds, so I'm not sure why this is acting up.


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denise quesnel
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 14, 2010 at 11:56:55 pm

What codec did you export out of after effects? Does it match your final cut sequence settings? Is it interlaced? Also if the font is serif instead of san serif you may have problems.


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Matt Dragovits
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 12:58:42 am

I exported out of AE as a 16 bit quicktime movie using animation compression at 100% quality. Once in FCP I had my timeline set with ProRes 422 HQ settings. I rendered everything out and exported as a QT movie. I then brought it into compressor and used the DVD High Quality 90 minutes setting.

The font is sans seriff. Not sure where I would find the interlace setting. Should I have exported my quicktime movie from FCP using proRes as well? I used it to render for my sequence settings but wasn't sure if I should export it that way too.

If anyone has a bullet point workflow for clean results, I'll follow it to the letter.

Thanks.

Dragzz


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 1:03:50 am

Why don't you use one of the Cow tools and send us a sample, either a still or video, so we have a better idea of what the darned thing looks like.

BTW, your workflow sounds pretty decent to me...

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Matt Dragovits
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 1:43:43 am

My workflow should be pretty good. I used the info you gave me last week and it helped a lot (-;

My problem is that the text looks great in stills. It looks great on the DVD when I play it on the computer, and it looks fine on a regular tv. It's just on my bigscreen dlp that I'm having issues. I'm going to try previewing the DVD on my friend's tv tomorrow and if it looks good there, then I'm going to think it's something with my tv. It's a 6-year old DLP and sometimes the signal strength looks a little weak to me to begin with, so I want to check the DVD on a few other sets before I proceed. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

BTW, when I export my QT movies out of FCP that I plan on compressing for DVD, should I use the standard ntsc dv quicktime defaults, or should I use the Apple ProRes NTSC settings? My timeline is set at ProRes 422 HQ. Thanks again for all of your help.

Dragzz


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 1:48:48 am

Never use the DV codec for anything if you can help it. It screws up text and graphics more than any single thing there is.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 1:49:56 am


Export a quicktime movie with current settings. Don't transcode to another codec, particularly Dv which will mush your graphics and potentially cause blocking artifacts in the DVD to be worse.


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Matt Dragovits
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 2:13:00 am

I always thought the default settings were DV NTSC 48 kHz?

So what setting, from the dropdown, is the best setting to use when editing standard DV footage that has after effects animations (as qt movies) cut in?

Dragzz


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Michael Gissing
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 2:25:13 am


Personally I finish all SD in an uncompressed 10 bit timeline. Next best is ProRes.

That way the final file is rendered in a codec that doesn't degrade graphics & text and also it means that grades and other processing are rendered at a higher 10 bit codec.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 2:39:32 am

Once your edit is complete, simply change the compressor in Sequence>>Settings to ProRes then re-render the timeline. It will leave all of your graphics and text pristine, and when you export a self contained file it will be a Pro Res file.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Matt Dragovits
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 4:03:51 am

Ok, I'm sorry to still be seeking clarification. I've done what you asked in selecting my sequence and then re-rendering the timeline using prores. My question is, when I then go to export using quicktime to create a self contained movie, do I just leave the "setting" drop down at "Current Settings", or do I need to go and select "Apple Pro Res 422 NTSC"?

Thanks.

Dragzz


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 4:20:57 am

[Matt Dragovits] "do I just leave the "setting" drop down at "Current Settings""

Affirmative!!! It's now a ProRes sequence, so current settings exports without another recompression step.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Alexander Kallas
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 1:31:09 pm

[Matt Dragovits] "I exported out of AE as a 16 bit quicktime movie using animation compression at 100% quality. Once in FCP I had my timeline set with ProRes 422 HQ settings. I rendered everything out and exported as a QT movie. I then brought it into compressor and used the DVD High Quality 90 minutes setting. "

Matt, what time-line setting did you have when you imported your AE 16bit Animation codec graphics?
If you had your movie in the DV codec to begin with and you brought your AE file in before re-rendering to ProRes, you got no benefit. DV is DV, and transcoded to m2v produces the "jittery" text.
It's not a matter of preserving text that originated via the DV codec, sure it will always look better on the Mac in 8-bit uncompressed or ProRes. But only on the Mac. You are delivering in DVD, so the question is text in m2v.
Better to do the text in the 8-bit uncompressed or ProRes time-line, and go to m2v from there.



Cheers
Alexander


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 4:41:22 pm

[Alexander Kallas] "If you had your movie in the DV codec to begin with and you brought your AE file in before re-rendering to ProRes, you got no benefit. "

He clearly said that he created it in the animation codec. And, if he adds a graphic with the animation codec to a DV timeline, changes the compressor to ProRes, then re-renders that timeline, he absolutely does get the full benefit of ProRes, with pristine graphics.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Alexander Kallas
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 15, 2010 at 8:50:13 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "He clearly said that he created it in the animation codec. And, if he adds a graphic with the animation codec to a DV timeline, changes the compressor to ProRes, then re-renders that timeline, he absolutely does get the full benefit of ProRes, with pristine graphics.
"


Correct, but only if he did not render the imported text in DV before changing it all to ProRes. I suspect he may have rendered in DV first, why else the problem?

Cheers
Alexander


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Alexander Kallas
Re: Jittery text on DVD Playback
on Apr 21, 2010 at 4:27:22 am

[Alexander Kallas] "[David Roth Weiss] "He clearly said that he created it in the animation codec. And, if he adds a graphic with the animation codec to a DV timeline, changes the compressor to ProRes, then re-renders that timeline, he absolutely does get the full benefit of ProRes, with pristine graphics.
"

Correct, but only if he did not render the imported text in DV before changing it all to ProRes. I suspect he may have rendered in DV first, why else the problem?
"


David, assuming the above is the case, can it be recovered, ie improved, by first trashing all the render files, and then re-render in ProRes?



Cheers
Alexander


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