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Another 24p Cinema Tools question...

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John Pastuch
Another 24p Cinema Tools question...
on Mar 28, 2010 at 11:44:48 pm

OK, if anyone has read my other post, they might already know my dilemma. Unfortunately, I can't get to my editing station until tomorrow, but I want to throw this up as a heads up.

I understand 24pA should ALWAYS be used when shooting with the DVX100 and editing in FCP...I've never planned to shoot 24p standard and never had until it accidentally happened a couple of weeks ago when I live captured some footage to a friend's macbook pro HD via firewire (and since then, I've learned to always shoot tape, so you don't need to tell me twice, lesson learned).

Anyway- here's the dilemma and bottom line- I'm apparently stuck with both 24p footage (which was accidental) and 24pA footage on tape- both need to be edited on a 23.98 timeline.

Now, since the accidental 24p footage was via live capture- that's all I have- I can't redigitize anything (I know, I know- always shoot tape). I captured it straight without removing pulldown or anything. However, we removed "advanced pulldown" from the 24p standard clips in FCP because we thought they were 24pA.

From what I've read, when you removed advanced pulldown from 24p footage, it screws up the fields and it would look bad. BUT, all of my footage SEEMS to looks smooth and work well. Why?


So...I know this is confusing. And I know I did things WRONG...I'm just trying to figure out what the heck has happened. I apparently had 24p footage that was captured directly from camera. I apparently removed ADVANCED pulldown from the footage and yet it still looks and plays SMOOTHLY...why? And if I removed the wrong type of pulldown and have no tape to redigitize....am I hosed? I suspect yes, but maybe someone can give me a clue as to what I'm talking about...and if I can fix anything in Cinema Tools.

And like I said, I KNOW always shoot 24pA, I simply made a mistake here, the damage is done and I'm just trying to make heads or tales of things.

Thanks.


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Michael Sacci
Re: Another 24p Cinema Tools question...
on Mar 29, 2010 at 12:50:38 am

Hey John, me again.

[John Pastuch] "I understand 24pA should ALWAYS be used when shooting with the DVX100 and editing in FCP" Change ALWAYS to IN MOST CASES and add "when editing as 23.98"

[John Pastuch] "However, we removed "advanced pulldown" from the 24p standard clips in FCP because we thought they were 24pA. "
How do you remove the pulldown? Via Cinema Tools from Tools menu?

Open the original file in QT and check to properties, does it still say 29.97 for fps? if so I would remove the pull down in Compressor.

In compressor start with a DV NTSC (if that is what your clips are.) Change the frame rate to 23.976 (not 23.98) and Scan Mode to Progressive in Video Settings.

In Frame Control Tab, turn on, under Deinterlace set to reverse telecine. Same this new preset and use on your clips. This will remove the normal pulldown.

BUT, if your clips not play correctly as they are converted now, I would use them. But I would step through the clip frame by frame. I never heard back if you did that but you may not have access to the system yet. You must set your canvas to 100%, only 100% will give you a true picture of what you have. When you step frame by frame you can see if there are any frames that look like they are a composite of 2 fields, the more motion there is the more of the effect you will see. If they look okay you maybe fine the way that you are but I would do one more test. If you do not have an external monitor to view out of FCP I would burn a DVD of these clips and watch the DVD on a TV to make sure they still look okay, once again if ok, I would say they are fine.



- Our software is idiot-proof, if you bought it it proves you are an idiot. - Dilbert


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John Pastuch
Re: Another 24p Cinema Tools question...
on Mar 29, 2010 at 1:54:19 am

Yeah, it's frustrating waiting because I'll have access to the system tommorow...

But until then, I already checked the clips last time I was editing on Friday- they are in fact 23.98.

And I removed pulldown literally within FCP using Tools>Remove Advanced Pulldown...it said "Removing Cadence" or whatever, and the clips looked and worked sharply and smoothly.

Now, I didn't think anything was wrong until this past weekend when Noah informed me that 24pA is not possible over firewire live...he didn't elaborate and I guess didn't need to, but simply said what I got was standard 24p.

Now, everything worked smoothly which is why I never thought I did something wrong. But before I got any further in editing, I'd obviously like to get to the bottom of this- did I in fact get 24pA footage, or did I somehow removed Advanced pulldown on 24p footage, and what underlying problems will this now present to me? And can I fix it in Cinema Tools?

OR- did I record some sort of other weird 24p since it wasn't written to tape? I honestly have no clue and CAN'T find my specific problem on any board...even if it's just curiosity- I'd like to know what exactly I did. So I'll check back tomorrow. Here's hoping I lucked out, simply capture 24pA live somehow, and removed cadence correctly...somehow I doubt it, but I figure this is some kind of interest since it seems unique.


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Michael Sacci
Re: Another 24p Cinema Tools question...
on Mar 29, 2010 at 2:48:58 am

Well you are kind of asking "what did I do" and since you are not really sure I don't know how anyone else is going to know what you did.

But you maybe worrying for nothing, if the footage looks good that is all that matters. Did you step through each frame, if each frame looks solid, go on with your edit.

- Our software is idiot-proof, if you bought it it proves you are an idiot. - Dilbert


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John Pastuch
Re: Another 24p Cinema Tools question...
on Mar 29, 2010 at 9:46:57 pm

OK...I just stepped through several clips of my footage, both at 100% and 200%. I counted 24 distinct clean frames a second. No ghosting or interlacing found, and I'm working on a 23.98 timeline...so if I don't have these things, I barely dodged a bullet here? There is some small digital noise visible in some dark areas, but I assume that's just inherent to the DVX and low light...?


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