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Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display

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Mark Fanjoy
Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 27, 2010 at 10:04:24 pm

I see a lot of Title Safe postings, but can't quite find my answer. Sorry if this is redundant.

Is there a setting in FC that will display 4x3 title/graphic safe bars in the canvas but over an HD 16x9 settings timeline? I need to be able to place my graphics correctly so when we convert to 4x3 and crop the left/right sides, I minimize adjusting.

Thanks,



Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 27, 2010 at 10:27:21 pm

There is in FCP7.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 27, 2010 at 10:35:18 pm

Thanks, Tom. Since I haven't seen a reason at my level of editing to justify upgrading, do you have a customized work-around idea? I'm thinking build the bars in Photoshop and output an overlay reference file to drop into a layer when adding graphics, then remove it when satisfied. Make sense? Or are there plugins out there that already provide a filter for this?

Thanks again.



Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 27, 2010 at 10:49:04 pm

You could do that. There might be third party generators for this if you want to try google.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Andy Mees
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 1:02:58 am

Some safe guides here: http://web.me.com/andymees ... the fabulous Digital Heaven also sell their WideSafe plugin, and coming soon there's the eyeHeight compliance plug which will include safe guides.


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 6:55:30 pm

Outstanding, Andy! Thank you. And thanks for your generosity in supplying the plugins. Very cool of you!

My next task is down-converting the 16x9 to a 4x3 output format. But I need to crop left and right instead of letterbox format (basically full screen without video stretch).

Searching threads now, but only finding instructions on converting with letterbox format.

Any ideas and direction is appreciated.



Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Adam Smith
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 7:20:38 pm

For a Center-Punch downconvert:

Drop your HD original into Compressor and dial in your settings as normal, but on the 5th tab "Geometry", you want something like


Source Inset
Crop to: 4x3 1.33:1


Dimensions
Frame Size: 720x480
Pixel Aspect: NTSC CCIR 601/DV



This will crop your footage on the sides, resulting in a full-screen standard-definition movie.

Note that I've seen people recommend that you downconvert first to a production-worthy codec (ProRes), and then use that new standard-def movie as the source for MPEG compression. I do this when I have time or the final output is important, but I've not heavily tested the differences.

- - -
Video Photographer / Avid & Final Cut Editor


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 7:33:57 pm

To be honest I would much rather do this inside an SD sequence putting the editing HD material in it and resize. This will give you much better control and fine adjustment of the framing than simply cropping it in the compression app.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 7:48:53 pm

Adam, thanks for the tip. It worked great. Now I can at least output samples of my edit and view the "look" to see how I'm doing with graphics, and some video left/right shifting.

Tom, if I may, I'd like to try your direction too. I've created a 4x3 sequence setting and dropped my edited 16x9 sequence video into that sequence. It formats the video in proportion great, but it creates a letterbox effect, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Is there a sequence setting I'm missing that will adjust the video to true 4x3 full framing?

Thanks.

Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 8:16:28 pm

There is no sequence setting for this. You have to adjust it by hand. I wouldn't do a nested sequence as it make individual shot adjustments difficult. I'd edit the contents of the sequence into the 4:3 timeline, adjust one clip and use copy and paste attributes to adjust the others. Then I can manually tweak the framing and position of each shot. Of course with HD material going to SD you have a lot of wiggle room.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 8:25:09 pm

Okay, that's exactly what I was just sitting here tinkering with until I learned if there was a setting. Even though it's a lot of manual adjusting, I like staying within FC to the final look and then output as it is.

Thank you very much for your support, Tom. Appreciated.



Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Adam Smith
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 8:27:33 pm

I'd assumed all the shots would be tweaked to taste before export. I use a combination of Andy's Guides, guides & shading on my Panasonic HD monitor, and an SD monitor with my AJA set to downconvert with Crop.

Tom - how do you feel about the quality of downconvert within FCP? I haven't tried that workflow as I've generally figured Compressor has much more control over the process.

-Adam

- - -
Video Photographer / Avid & Final Cut Editor


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Adam Smith
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 8:35:19 pm

Heh.. after re-reading that it seems like a silly question - I'm sure if you felt the quality was lacking I don't suppose you'd use/recommend the process.

There's certainly something to be said for viewing the true final image area right there in FCP.

- - -
Video Photographer / Avid & Final Cut Editor


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 8:46:36 pm

Adam, you were still on track with me. Yes, I would want to have the picture framing finalized before I dropped it into Compressor, which by the way, I still see as a valid direction.

My bigger problem is having the guides set correctly to know how far left or right I can shift my video picture (and place graphics) to be within that 4x3 area. Andy's guides look productive, but I'm not quite sure I'm inserting them correctly.

When I dropped Andy's guide into a 4x3 sequence from a previous project, his guide lines do not line up with that 4x3 sequence. So now I'm a little gun shy about the accuracy of that guide for my 16x9 sequence. Maybe his coding factors in the sequence settings and adjusts display of the guides accordingly. So, if I drop the guides into a 4x3 sequence, the code still adjusts to its code presets (thinking its a 16x9 sequence) and displays the lines, which are squeezed way inside the 4x3 range.

I don't know.

Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Adam Smith
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 9:56:08 pm

I seem to remember Andy's Guides being right on, or at least close enough that it didn't raise any flags with me. Not sure about the guide behavior in an SD sequence.

I used them for a bit, but like I said above I have 2 external monitors to use as reference. I'm out of the house right now but in about 4 hours I'll be back and getting started on a project, if you're still wondering I can compare between Andy's, FCP7 and my monitors.

Or maybe Andy can chime in... and I second your opinion on his free filters - "Thanks Andy, great stuff!"

-Adam

- - -
Video Photographer / Avid & Final Cut Editor


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 10:10:42 pm

Thanks for that, Adam. I'm sure they are right on and when you check against your monitors you will confirm that.

Being new to Andy's guides I just wanted to bounce on someone out there for an opinion once I saw the behavior of his guides when dropped into the 4x3 sequence. But, they're not designed to be dropped into a 4x3 sequence I reckon!

I'm going for it and going to start my session.




Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Andy Mees
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 11:15:14 pm

Yup, the safe guides are specifically designed for use in a 16:9 sequence to show your 4:3 and 14:9 crop, title and graphic safe areas within that aspect ... the free guides and center cross can certainly be useful when used in a 4:3 sequence but the safe areas would not be correct. FCP already has perfectly good 4:3 safe guides so if and when working in 4:3 you can simply use those guides rather than my plugin.

If you work in your original 16:9 sequence (or a copy of it) you can use the guides to show the 4:3 center crop region and resize and reframe / keyframe your shots accordingly for your pan and scan version, then use the method originally outlined above (Compressor > Geometry tab) for creating that version when exporting directly.

Hope that helps
Andy


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 28, 2010 at 11:42:18 pm

Thanks, Andy. One last confirmation from you about the guide's color bars.

Red is title safe, green is graphic safe, and blue is absolute 4x3 border, correct?

Thanks,

Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 29, 2010 at 12:16:42 am

Andy, I lied. One more question!

I have set up a two-camera multi-clip edit to switch back and forth. But when I lay the Guides over the multi-clip sequence, the two clips no longer show in the Viewer, only the Guides.

Can I not use the Guides in a multi-clip edit setting?

Thanks,

Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Andy Mees
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 29, 2010 at 5:29:49 am

>Red is title safe, green is graphic safe, and blue is absolute 4x3 border, correct?

Yes, those are the default guide colors but you can change them if you want.

Can I not use the Guides in a multi-clip edit setting?

Just lock the track with the guides on and it should work fine (as this prevents it from loading into the Viewer when the Playhead Sync mode is set to "Open").

Best
Andy


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Mark Fanjoy
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Mar 29, 2010 at 6:15:22 am

Yep. Locking the track did it. You 'da man!

Thank you all very much for your input and support (and patience with the rookies!)

Great site!!!



Wherever I am...I'm lost!


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Trey Fales
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Feb 28, 2011 at 3:21:43 pm

Tom - how do you access the setting in FCP 7?


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Feb 28, 2011 at 3:36:53 pm

Turn on title safe and you'll see the little tick marks that indicate safe areas for 4:3.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Trey Fales
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Feb 28, 2011 at 3:38:46 pm

duh?? thanks Tom!


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Michael Rothenberg
Re: Title Safe 4x3 Lines For HD 16x9 Display
on Jun 20, 2011 at 6:59:02 pm

Great thread!! Answered all my questions in one go.

Thanks to Tom and the other pros on CC.

Michael

Michael Rothenberg
Peak Productions


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