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Juan Palacio
mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 6:11:39 pm

Ive seen various post about mixing frame rates on here and I understand that it's something you shouldn't do. However, I was wondering for my specific situation what the best way to handle it is.

I am working with a 23.98 sequence and 90% of my footage is 23.98. I have a couple shots where the B camera was shooting at 29.97 and didn't realize. So now I need to figure out the best way to deal with that footage. Everything was shot on P2 cards and we will be doing a blow up to film.

I am assuming I need to convert the 29.97 clips to 23.98. What is the best way to do this?

Thank you!
Juan


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Todd VanSlyck
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 6:31:23 pm

I believe Cinema Tools should do the trick. I'm not very familiar with it so I can't give you specific direction.

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David Roth Weiss
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 6:37:29 pm

[Juan Palacio] "I am assuming I need to convert the 29.97 clips to 23.98. What is the best way to do this?"

The best way to do is to go to a facility that has the proper Teranex hardware, especially if you are doing a filmout. Are there other solutions that are not "the best," such as with Cinema Tools? Of course, but would I advise going that route for a filmout? No way.

You can save some money, possibly, by using Cinema Tools now, for a temp job while you're editing for story. Then later using the Teranex to convert only your cut material to 23.98. But, that's not going to end up saving you as much as you'd think, because you will eat up lots of time doing it that way, and it will end up being somewhat of a wash in the end.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Juan Palacio
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 7:19:36 pm

Thanks David! Very helpful. I ve never dealt with this situation before and I am wondering what problems I am going to encounter, what is the image going to look like if I do this in cinema tools vs teranex? And why this become more dramatic when doing a film out?

Also, I was told (by the DP who made this mistake) that you could do a pull down in fcp that would make the footage run at 23.98?

Thanks!


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Mark Spano
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 8:06:17 pm

[Juan Palacio] "Also, I was told (by the DP who made this mistake) that you could do a pull down in fcp that would make the footage run at 23.98"

Yes. He forgot to add this to the end of the sentence: ", and it will look terrible, but go for it."

Seriously, David knows what he's talking about here. You can try dropping that 29.97 footage into the sequence and if you're looking at the output, you'll know right away it's not gonna cut it.



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B.J. Ahlen
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 8:50:22 pm

I don't understand what Cinema Tools could do here?

In the opposite direction, from 24p to 60i (aka "29.97i" or just "29.97"), yes. Just add the pulldown (please don't do this and edit afterwards!).

If the footage was actually shot at 29.97i (aka 60i) or 30P or 29.97p, then I don't see how Cinema Tools could do anything meaningful.

Compressor can do a decent conversion (with the proper settings) from 29.97i to "24p" (23.976p). Not Teranex output, but it can be very decent depending on the content, and there are numerous other tools to do that conversion.

If the B cam was shooting 30P, then you have a bigger problem. That is naaasty. Use Compressor with Frame Controls on and be prepared to wait a long time, and after that prepare to be disappointed most likely.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 11:16:45 pm

[B.J. Ahlen] "I don't understand what Cinema Tools could do here?"

I wasn't personally recommending Cinema Tools B.J., just suggesting that if Juan wanted something other than the best, i.e. Teranex, that other solutions do exist.

However, Juan did request the best, and he said it was for a filmout, and that really means just one thing to me, and that would be Teranex. I think you would have to agree. Right?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 16, 2010 at 10:45:59 pm

[Juan Palacio] "And why this become more dramatic when doing a film out?"

Because your image is going to be projected at about a zillion times the size of the video imager on the which it was recorded.

[Juan Palacio] "what is the image going to look like if I do this in cinema tools vs teranex?"

Teranex it will be perfect, software conversion won't be early as good. Keep in mind, the Teranex is a dedicated hardware solution, made to do just one thing as good as can be done, and that is video conversions.

You asked for the best, and that's what I gave you in my answer. Are you now asking for second best?



David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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B.J. Ahlen
Re: mixing frame rates
on Mar 17, 2010 at 2:58:24 am

Yes, particularly with a filmout, it would make sense to use a Teranex for this.

For normal scenes.

Sometimes there may be fuzzy extreme motion scenes where you could do the conversion by pointing a lens-scratched Barbiecam at the FCP preview window ["Holgavision"], and no one would know.... :O)


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