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2k displaying through HD Kona LHi

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Jay Moffat
2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 1:15:54 pm

I posted here as it seemed more pertinent to setup than card specific...

So I've received a 2k file for grading, which is ultimately set for HD delivery... I was under the impression that my Kona LHi would not handle it, however it does. The sequence is set to custom 16:9 2048 x 1152, my output is set to 10bit 1920x1080, so there is probably some scaling going on, but through the FSI monitor I get the full frame at 1:1 and I can set it to see the 2k file too.

My question, what is actually happening here? The image appears sharp, but is there some down conversion happening? There's certainly no cropping.

Thanks

J


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gary adcock
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 1:51:59 pm

[Jay Moffat] "The sequence is set to custom 16:9 2048 x 1152, my output is set to 10bit 1920x1080, so there is probably some scaling going on, but through the FSI monitor I get the full frame at 1:1 and I can set it to see the 2k file too. "

What does it say in the Crop Panel of the Kona Control Panel?


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Jay Moffat
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 2:03:36 pm

It's the same as the FCP output: 1080i25 which is what I expected, what I didn't expect was the footage to play at all through the Kona due to it's size. Is the scaling happenign from FCP? I have the same output through Apple Color...

J


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Russell Lasson
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 4:10:23 pm

My hunch is that FCP is doing the scaling to give the Kona LHi the 1080 signal. You're not noticing any strange distortion because your 2k resolution is 16:9, just like your output resolution.

For kicks, create a sequence that is 2048x858. Put a clip into it and change it so it doesn't scale to fit the frame, but just crops the top and bottom. Export that clip and then bring it back into the sequence. This is so FCP will see the clip as native to the timeline. Now try to play it back using your current FCP/Kona monitor settings. Does to playback? If so, is it stretching the vertical resolution or is it playing back the file letterboxed within 16:9.

We only have Kona 3 and Kona LHe cards in our facility. If I get a second today, I'll try what you're talking about on these cards. But you're right, the Kona 3 is the only card that, according to the specs, supports 2k.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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Jay Moffat
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 5:05:43 pm

Hi Russell.

Just dropping the original file into the 2048x858 sequence setup, it stretches the vertical resolution.

If I drop in the 2048x858 rendered sequence back into itself, the pause frame is stretched, but playing the sequence displays letterboxed, but at the top of the screen.

My basic wonder is if I should re-render the sequence as 1080 and grade, or just grade and render out as 2048x1152 and supply back to the client.

J


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Russell Lasson
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 5:12:26 pm

[Jay Moffat] "Just dropping the original file into the 2048x858 sequence setup, it stretches the vertical resolution.

If I drop in the 2048x858 rendered sequence back into itself, the pause frame is stretched, but playing the sequence displays letterboxed, but at the top of the screen. "


So FCP is trying to conform whatever you have to 1920x1080, then the Kona plays it out. The Kona is not scaling the 2k video. Again, the Kona 3 can do this, but not the Kona LH series.

[Jay Moffat] "My basic wonder is if I should re-render the sequence as 1080 and grade, or just grade and render out as 2048x1152 and supply back to the client. "

Going out to theaters is about the only reason I can think of to keep the 2048 resolution. Other than that, I would master at 1920x1080. So if the client needs 2k then stick with that. Otherwise, I'd render it out to 1920x1080 for the finishing work.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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Jay Moffat
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 5:17:40 pm

Thanks Russell, something which I noticed which I hadn't before as I'd only just finished watching The ProRes version of the file: FCP scales the ProRes version to fit the screen, but not the Uncompressed version.

So does this means the LHi can play ProRes 2k but not uncompressed, or is FCP doing this in RealTime?

In Apple Color the uncompressed version is scaled to fit the screen like the ProRes version, so theoretically I suppose I can grade the 2k version.

J


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gary adcock
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 3, 2010 at 6:33:47 pm

[Jay Moffat] "So does this means the LHi can play ProRes 2k but not uncompressed, or is FCP doing this in RealTime? "

No,according to AJA 2K output is not supported on the LHI card, that and the crop function I mention earlier are only supported on the K3 card.

As Russell said it is FCP that is doing the scaling, not the Kona, so your system is fast enough for FCP to handle ProRes but not the much more hardware intensive Uncompressed format.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Jay Moffat
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Mar 4, 2010 at 9:18:00 am

Great stuff, thanks, much clearer now..for reference in case it helps, the Kona LHi scales the full frame in Apple Color, presumably because the computer doesn't need to do it real-time and has time to do the job...


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Guillem Ventura
Re: 2k displaying through HD Kona LHi
on Jul 27, 2010 at 4:31:07 pm

8.0 drivers might well fix this!

-Guillem @ Blur Producciones, Madrid.


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