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IMX 50 .MXF delivery help

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Brian Whitton
IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 1:28:54 am

Hey all--

CC has saved my butt with the archives in the past, but I need a little specific help right now.

Need to delivery a 3 1/2 minute video with the following specs:

MPEG 2 @ 50Mbps, I-Frame, Program Stream, .MXF file
Essence Container: SMPTE D10 (Sony IMX 50)

Operational Pattern: OP1A

4:2:2 @Main Level

720 x 512

Frame rate: 29.97

Audio: PCM 24 bit @ 48Khz (4 discrete tracks: L, R , SAP, Descriptive

Working in FCP with footage capture from an HVX and EX-3. The HVX was transcoded to ProRes 422 HQ and the EX-3 was transferred as XDCAM EX 720p24, 35 mb/s VBR.

Can anyone out there help accomplish a delivery to the listed specs?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 3:13:00 am

This will do it for you:

http://mxf4mac.com/mxf-gc-export

But you will have to conform the frame rate first. You can use Compressor to make a downconverted SD 29.97 movie with proper pulldown and then you can use the MXF4mac exporter to make the D10 MXF.

Jeremy


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Bouke Vahl
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 9:30:54 am

MXF4mac is a waste of money.
Using the XDcam transfer plugin, you can export to MXF with these specs. (to a custom location on your harddisk)

Keep in mind that you probably have to do a gamma correction on your timeline. Make a few testclips and send them to the receiving part.



Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 1:52:28 pm

Waste of money is relative.

I'd still make an sd movie first with proper pulldown.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 2:35:29 pm

Dude,
500 euro vs free, that's not relative, that's 500 euro difference...
Or am i missing the joke?

I've used the XDcam exporter with success for broadcast commercials over here (although we use 30 rather than 50)

I totally agree on the pulldown though.



Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 3:02:03 pm

Jeremy and Bouke--

Thanks very much for your replies. With your guidance I was able to export according to specs provided. Here's what I did:

1. Created a 720x512 sequence in my FCP project, kept all other settings the same (23.98 fps, ProRes HQ).

2. Dropped timeline from the native 1920x1080 "editing" sequence into the new 720x512 sequence.

3. Scaled down all the clips to fit the smaller SD frame size. Now there's a small letterbox.

4. Exported a ProRes HQ .mov at 29.97 fps 720x512. Didn't take too long b/c it was the native codec.

5. Imported that clip into FCP and dropped it into a new sequence with these settings
- ProRes HQ 422
- 29.97 fps
- 720x512
- 24 bit 48 khz discrete channel audio
- 4 dual mono output channels
- 6 add'l audio tracks added to the timeline (for a total of 8), a pair checked off for each of the 4 output channels (right click on left side of timeline>audio output>1... 2.. 3... 4..).

6. Exported using XDCAM (finally!). Used the IMX 565/50mbs setting. Quick!

Plays great in XDCAM app. All the settings are visible and match up. :-)

Jeremy, thanks for the 29.97 heads up, but I kind of learned that one on my own after exporting a 23.98 thru XDCAM and witnessing the dropped frames.

Bouke, yes, 499 EU is expensive right now. XDCAM export seems to work fine though. I wonder how many people buy mxf4mac out of ignorance?

Thanks again guys. Yet another heart attack prevented by CC forums!

Brian


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Bouke Vahl
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 4:13:12 pm

Brian,
This is wrong!
You should set the SD sequence to 480!
The extra 32 lines will be inserted by the XDcam exporter. (They are black lines).
If you do it this way, either a piece of the image gets cropped, or the image is scaled twice.

Also, be aware of gamma issues!


Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 4:20:06 pm

[Brian Whitton] "1. Created a 720x512 sequence in my FCP project, kept all other settings the same (23.98 fps, ProRes HQ). "

Be careful here. With DG Fastchannel, the 512 requires a certain amount of blanking and it doesn't necessarily mean the image is centered in the middle. As a matter of fact, the extra 32 pixels usually reside on the top of the screen so the moving image is weighted towards the bottom with the blanking (both letterbox and 32 pixel black) towards the top and the rest of the letterbox on the bottom. Don't know if your delivery requires something similar. Best to check.

[Brian Whitton] "4. Exported a ProRes HQ .mov at 29.97 fps 720x512. Didn't take too long b/c it was the native codec. "

Did this create proper 3:2 interlaced pulldown? I bet it didn't, it's probably 2224 (3 frames followed by two repeated frames). I would do all of this in compressor as it will add proper pulldown and you can set the blanking where you need it.

[Brian Whitton] "I wonder how many people buy mxf4mac out of ignorance? "

If they buy it out of ignorance, then they don't need it. The GC Export is a completely useful tool for MXF jockeys. One day, we will all be MXF jockeys.

Jeremy


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 7:09:46 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Be careful here. With DG Fastchannel, the 512 requires a certain amount of blanking and it doesn't necessarily mean the image is centered in the middle. As a matter of fact, the extra 32 pixels usually reside on the top of the screen so the moving image is weighted towards the bottom with the blanking (both letterbox and 32 pixel black) towards the top and the rest of the letterbox on the bottom. Don't know if your delivery requires something similar. Best to check."

I'm delivering a music video to MTV, so I don't think we're going through Fastchannel.

If I got back to FCP, change the pre-Compressor delivery sequence to 720x480, and scale the images fill the space, I'm lead to believe that the xdcam transfer will add the extra 32 pixels, right? Will that be correct ?

I don't entirely understand what we're talking about there. What should I ask the client? As you can tell, I'm very new to MXF.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 7:26:17 pm

[Brian Whitton] " so I don't think we're going through Fastchannel. "

Didn't mean to lead you astray there, just using Fastchannel is as an example as what happens to the 480 to 512 conversion.

[Brian Whitton] "If I got back to FCP, change the pre-Compressor delivery sequence to 720x480, and scale the images fill the space, I'm lead to believe that the xdcam transfer will add the extra 32 pixels, right? Will that be correct ? "

Yes. It will add the proper blanking. Are you delivering 4x3 center cut or letterbox?

Jeremy


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 7:38:58 pm

Not 100%. My producer only gave me an excerpt of the delivery specs, but he is sending along the full doc shortly.

I'll let you know ASAP. Thanks for walking me through this Jeremy.


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 9:07:52 pm

Looks like it's 4:3 center cut. No letterboxing.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 9:21:53 pm

And this is the HD movie? So you have a pillar boxed 16x9 movie? or you have a full frame 16x9 movie and you need to center cut it?


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 9:39:59 pm

Yes, this is what I've been talking about the entire time. Music video shot in HD full 1920x1080.

We are delivering a digital file in SD. According to the full spec doc they don't accept digital HD files, only tape. They don't seem to specify letterbox v cropped, full-frame 16x9. So I guess it's a question for the artist/manager/producer.

Anyway, here's where I'm at:

I followed your instructions and made both sequences 720x480 (pre 29.97 export and pre xdcam export). Played the final MXF in xdcam and it looks good to me. Nicely 4:3 with no noticeable distortion.

They've also asked for it as a playable DVD. I assume they mean they want a data dvd with the MXF as well as a dvd that plays the video in the 29.97 frame rate at the SD frame size.

To do this, I "exported" (though XDCAM transfer calls it an import) the IMX file as a .mov, and dropped that into compressor to make DVD SP files (m2v and ac3). Just checked it in DVD SP and both files import well and simulate well.

Submissions must be made by Thursday at 3 pm to be in their acquisitions mtg on Monday, so I have a little time to have a few more catastrophes.

Let me know if you see anything glaringly uninformed here.

Thanks again Jeremy!

Brian


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 10:38:21 pm

[Brian Whitton] "Yes, this is what I've been talking about the entire time. Music video shot in HD full 1920x1080.

We are delivering a digital file in SD."


I undersand all that. You just need to know whether to deliver a letterboxed 4x3, an anamorphic 4x3 or a center cut 4x3. There's a big difference in all of them, especially the center cut.


This is what you should do. Export the 23.98 HD movie. Take that to compressor, down convert, adjust PAR and add pulldown there (I have posted how to do this many many times in the past on the cow). This will leave you with a 29.97 SD file. Bring that 29.97 file in to FCP and THEN export the MXF file from your Compressor created SD file.

You can make the DVD files from the same HD file while you are in compressor.

Have you checked the IMX file on a proper monitor or just in the software?

Oh wait! You don't have MXF4mac. My bad! You should really get the MXF file checked on a proper monitor.

Jeremy


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 11:08:29 pm

Ok, so it looks like I'll be delivering in letterboxed 4:3. The spec doc doesn't specify and we decided to deliver a full image.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Take that to compressor, down convert, adjust PAR and add pulldown there (I have posted how to do this many many times in the past on the cow)."
SO. Understood everything, and will check the CC archives for directions to make the necessary compressor adjustments. I assume I won't need to downconvert, as we're going letterbox. Also, I assume the frame size going into compressor will be 1920x1080, but I will be adjusting it therein to 720x480.


[Jeremy Garchow] "Oh wait! You don't have MXF4mac. My bad! You should really get the MXF file checked on a proper monitor."

By proper monitor, you mean standard crt TV? Checking for issues like color and gamma? How would I check the MXF file on a proper monitor if it only plays in XDCAM?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 11:32:58 pm

[Brian Whitton] "I assume I won't need to downconvert, as we're going letterbox. "

GOing from HD to Letterbox SD is a downconvert. Yes, you will need to downconvert.

[Brian Whitton] "Also, I assume the frame size going into compressor will be 1920x1080, but I will be adjusting it therein to 720x480"

That's correct, but you will add padding in the Geometry tab to get the letterbox.

[Brian Whitton] "How would I check the MXF file on a proper monitor if it only plays in XDCAM?"

Uh, hate to say it, but MXF4mac's MXF Import. You know, that waste of money?

Color, gamma, and pulldown, yes.

Jeremy


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Bouke Vahl
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 3, 2010 at 7:45:16 am

You can use the XDcam plugin to import your footage.
However, same as with MXF4Mac, this won't help you at all.
What you'll get back is what you have send, and that is no indication that the broadcaster will like it this way.

If there is a gamma difference between you and the broadcaster, you won't know, as you will see what you have made that is correct for YOUR system.
You need to be sure about your workflow all the way, and you need to send testclips to the broadcaster to be sure.
That includes field dominance test and gamma tests (just make 3 vertical bars, black, mid-grey and white).
If unsure about letterbox vs FHA, just make both.

Audio levels is another thing. Chances are pretty slim you'll guess it right.
So, call the broadcaster, get friends with a tech there and send testclips. Or, ask him what they use for QC.
(believe it or not, our biggest broadcaster over here uses Vegas for QC.)







Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 4, 2010 at 11:31:25 pm

Hey Jeremy,

I've almost figured this out. I exported my 24fps file to a 1920x1080 quicktime, and in compressor figured out how to accomplish a 3:2 pulldown (lower field interlacing, fast rate conversion, etc.), but the part where I'm lost is the PAR and padding to achieve a 720x512 frame size.

I thought I would choose the 720x480 frame size, and since I'm going for letterbox, I thought a PAR of NTSC CCIR 601/DV (16:9) (PAR of .8438) would be it. But then do I choose the 16x9 option again under Padding? When I do that, there's nothing added to any of the fields (they're all 0). I did a test export, but the size came out to 720x486.

Can you shed some light on this PAR thing, and how to get the frame height to 512?

mxf4mac is really starting to look good right about now.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 4, 2010 at 11:56:43 pm

You will want to keep the 720x480 frame size and the dv ratio. Then in padding
choose the 16:9 preset. Once you get that letterbox file, then go into Sony software and export the MXF. IT should add the extra padding for you. Make sense?


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 5, 2010 at 4:03:31 pm

Thank you!

I set the compressor settings as you said, exporting using the IMX 50mb/s preset in XDCAM transfer, and when the IMX opens in XDCAM, the dimensions still say 720x480. Is the 512 implied?

How tired are you of my nonsense by now?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 5, 2010 at 4:07:36 pm

[Brian Whitton] "How tired are you of my nonsense by now?"

:) It's all good, Brian. No worries.

What if you open the file in VLC?


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Brian Whitton
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 18, 2010 at 3:50:34 pm

Jeremy,

Sorry for the late reply. SXSW came out of nowhere!

Anyway, it looks perfect in VLC. 720x512 is the listed frame size! Amazing.

Thanks for all the help, and I'm sure I'll be back.

Case CLOSED.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 3:36:49 pm

If it's something you use all the time and need to export more than just imx mxfs. It's worth it, so yes, it's relative.

I don't understand gettung scolded for 'a waste' over laying out an option. This has happened twice in two days for no apparent reason accept that the options I choose aren't the cheapest. Yes. PROFESSIONAL PRODUCTS COST MONEY. You know that, you develop some products that cost money, don't you?

I am just giving OP an option. I am not saying that he has to buy it. I didn't say that your option was a waste of
time, was it? Thanks for giving another option, but I'm tired of getting berated for other options that actually cost money that will do way more than free. I am not strong arming anyone into anything, just merely presenting a solution.

Thank you.

Jeremy



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Bouke Vahl
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery help
on Mar 2, 2010 at 4:10:35 pm

Jeremy,
Don't feel insulted if i did not mady any attempt to insult you.
By now you should know me good enough that i make it very clear when i want to do harm.



Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Alexandre Borges
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery
on May 21, 2010 at 6:40:52 pm

Hey all,
I'm having a similar problem. I have to delivery 2 videos with this 2 specs:

1

Video: MPEG 16Mbps, LONG GOP, 4:2:2, 720x486, 29.97fps
Audio: aiff, 16bps : VBI Type: SMPTE 436M on line 12
DID=45H; SDID:01H
Container: .MXF(OP1A Internal)

2

Video: XDCAM 50, 1920x1080; 29.97fps
Audio: aiff, 16bps; VANC Type SMPTE 436M on line 10
DID=45H; SDID=01H
Container: .MXF(OP1A Internal)

But using Sony XDCAM Transfer I didn't found this settings, or even a custom which I can change. There are some way to increase the settings of export in Sony XDCAM Transfer or I'll have to use other way to export this .mxf files? Which way?

Alex


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James Kommoss
IMX 50 .MXF delivery
on Mar 11, 2011 at 11:45:38 am

Hi Brian,
I'm just wondering how you got on with this in the end? I have a similar delivery to the same station, so far I've tested it thus:
Sequence setting is IMX 50, with audio output at 4, and XDCAM transfer. VLC sees the extra padding correctly.
Now I'm wondering about the XML file that I have to provide. Is this just an ordinary FCP xml file, of the sequence in which the video sits?

Many thanks for any help you can provide!

Best regards,
James


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery
on Mar 11, 2011 at 4:57:00 pm

[James Kommoss] "Now I'm wondering about the XML file that I have to provide. Is this just an ordinary FCP xml file, of the sequence in which the video sits?"

What did the specs say to deliver?


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Omer Ozcan
Re: IMX 50 .MXF delivery
on Apr 4, 2013 at 7:27:25 pm

hello,

i need to deliver quite similar video for a tv channel.

they ask for SD IMX 50 with 24 bit audio.

i did well except 24 bit audio. i have 24 bit aiff tracks. my sequence has 24 bit settings. however when i go for xdcam export, if i choose IMX 50, it only allows 16 bit audio. i cant change it to 24 bit.

what's wrong with my steps?

thanks in advance.


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