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New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?

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Bret Williams
New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?
on Mar 1, 2010 at 11:21:21 pm

In FCP 6 I was working in a DVCPro HD 720 24p sequence an realized I needed to mix in 29.97 60i material. In the end, the best way was to switch to a 59.94 sequence where all the pulldown could match up with the 60i material. Anyway, all I did to get the ball rolling was to start a new 59.94 seqeunce and copy and paste the contents of the 24p sequence into it. It was all pretty close except for a few flashframes here and there where things didn't perfectly line up. Easily fixed.

Now, in FCP 7 I'm having to do the same thing. I've been given a 24p seqeunce, but animation and other video sources are 29.97. The sequence has already been roughed out so I thought I'm make a new 29.97 seqeunce and cut and paste. But after pasting, everything is everywhere. Audio is only half the length and video has been spaced out in seemingly random fashion.

Is this a bug in FCP 7 or the new way it works? I can't see much use to the new method.


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Shane Ross
Re: New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?
on Mar 2, 2010 at 12:01:41 am

[Bret Williams] "Is this a bug in FCP 7 or the new way it works"

No, this is the way that FCP has always worked. You are taking one frame rate and pasting it into another frame rate sequence. Spacing between clips ensues.

This is the absolute WORST way to do things, BTW. The worst. FCP does NOT add the proper pulldown to 23.98 to get it to 29.97, nor 59.94. Nor does it remove it properly to get 29.97 to 23.98. NO no no. Do not mix frame rates in FCP...period. Apple Marketting has you THINKING this works, and it does to a point. It doesn't look good, but it works. If you want it to look good, and work well, get Avid Media Composer 4.0. That Mix and Match feature blows FCP out of the water.

So...you are left with needing to convert the frame rates of the other footage to match. Graphics...ask that they be render out 23.98. Other sources, use Compressor to convert to 23.98.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bret Williams
Re: New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?
on Mar 2, 2010 at 5:09:34 am

You're right. 24 and 30 don't mix correctly in a 30 seq. Because FCP only adds the basic repeat frame interlacing and pulldown. But that's why a 59.94 sequence works. The 24p material just gets repeated with no interlacing, while the 29.97 material of course fits in perfectly. Then you take the finished 59.94 seq and drop it into AE or compressor to be interlaced together at 29.97 when you're done. It works beautifully and the 24p ends up with the proper interlaced pulldown. I've done it. I've tested it and it works correctly.

Perhaps on the last project in FCP 6 I had a 29.97 sequence with 24p and 29.97 material mixed, and I copied and pasted that into a 59.94. That would make more sense. Everything would stay intact because the 24 already got the pulldown cadence added when edited into the 29.97, and the 29.97 just gets stretched equally. I'll have to test FCP 7 and see if that process still works.


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josh granger
Re: New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?
on May 3, 2010 at 6:17:31 pm

It's funny, I came across this post because we have been having a very similar problem since we upgraded to fcp7. We make these 1:00 spots where the footage is shot XDCAM 24p, ultimately converting it to SD 29.97 and mixing it with various SD graphics, film clips, etc.

In fcp 6 we would make an XDCAM 24p seq, edit in that (so no rendering) and then when done, we'd copy and paste into a 29.97 sequence. (This is only to then set graphics and make approval QTs; for the final 24 to 29.97 we run the footage through a Terranex or something) In fcp6 this copy and paste presented no problem. A few flash frames, as the op mentioned...

But now in 7 it seems the way fcp makes the conversion is completely different. It drops some shots altogether, moves video and audio all over the map...

We managed to find a workaround by exporting an xml of the fcp7 HD sequence, importing into a machine we have that's running fcp6, doing the copy & paste there, and then reopening that into 7.

It's a pretty specific scenario, so I haven't really found much else online about this problem...for us, it's actually making it worth keeping one machine on fcp6...


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brandon wasserburger
Re: New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?
on May 6, 2012 at 3:00:48 pm

Guys, I totally feel your pain. My company does contract post for a larger broadcast production company. They specifically say, "Do NOT start a project in 24P because we need to broadcast in 29.97 and it's a pain in the butt to switch backwards!" Well, I did just that, I made the bone headed mistake of not checking first before editing. I finished my episode and bam, it's in 24 and I can't ship it that way. I read your posts and liked what I saw, but I don't have FCP 6, I jumped to straight into 7 from a long gone educational license of 6.

BUT! If anyone ever has this problem and comes across this forum, I've got solution. It's not pretty, but it'll get you there without having to go back to FCP 6 or switching to Avid (cool but not an option when you're not rolling in the dough and your clients work in FCP 7).

If you copy and paste each clip individually from your 24P timeline into a 29.97 timeline, it will enter the sequence in sync just as you cut it. The only thing that's a little whacky is speed ramps (depending on how you do them), those you may have to rebuild. But if you copy each element and paste it, FCP remembers what video track it originated in and it will paste accordingly into that video track. It's a little bit slow of a process at first, BUT you'll get two things accomplished:

1) You'll learn to never start a project with the wrong sequence settings again. Which we should all be aware of anyway as editors before starting a project. haha but mistakes do happen :D

2) You'll get your project "reconstructed" without throwing everything out of sync.

Sincerely,

Brandon Wasserburger
Senior Editor
Fire Tribe Productions, inc.
firetribeproductions.com


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brandon wasserburger
Re: New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?
on May 6, 2012 at 3:20:35 pm

I will add a couple more things...

Like one of the guys said above, you've got to remember that you are switching from a 24 to 30 project. So even by doing the cut and paste each clip one at a time method, you've to to know that it's going to be one or two frames off sometimes. But that's better than 5 seconds off or your in and out points are the same etc etc.

What I did was configure my screen layout so I can look at both timelines at the same time. I then cut and paste ONE element at a time. If the clip is linked to audio, I copy and paste those together, also I do music very last so I can focus on one aspect of the edit at a time. I'm about 20 minutes into this process right now as I'm writing this and it seems to be working good without much exception. The key is to do it one at a time and don't copy and paste groups of material at at a time because I think it's too much math for FCP to handle on it's clipboard when you do more than one clip or one piece of video.

Best of luck to you reading this if you're in this mess. I hope this method I've described helps you and keeps you from having to switch programs or platforms.

Sincerely,

Brandon


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brandon wasserburger
Re: New MO for 24p to 29.97 (or 59.94) in FCP 7?
on May 6, 2012 at 9:03:13 pm

Last post on this subject. But I finished after about 2 hours of copying and pasting for a 22:30;00 show.
If you worry about the footage first, copying and pasting each piece one at a time, THEN worry about the music second you'll be doing great. Because you can select ALL the music and copy and paste it all at once. Music isn't bound by 24 frames or 29.97 Frames. Music doesn't care, so it's a straight copy and paste job.

- Brandon


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