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HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps

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Marni Page
HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 21, 2010 at 2:13:26 pm

Hi everyone,
I've been reading a lot about the ever popular topic of creating SD DVDs from HDV. I'm doing this with the added complication of changing the frame rate from 25 to 24. I also had many artifacts in the final picture. I'm now trying to export sequences using the motion filtering quality set to "fastest" in FCP to see if that helps. But my questions have grown and I was hoping someone might help me.

My project involved a fair amount of scaling and reframing of images because I did not like the way the interviews were composed. Here's been my process so far:

1) HDV 25p edited in an SD PAL 25p ProRes HQ timeline -- images rescaled where needed
2) PAL 25p sequence exported self-contained
3) PAL 25p self-contained movie brought back into project
4) "Conform 25 to 24" applied in FCP, modifying the frame rate of self-contained movie source file.
5) Imported the conformed 24p movie file into an SD NTSC 24p ProRes HQ timeline
6) Exported the 24p NTSC movie self-contained.
7) Dropped the 24p NTSC movie into compressor for mpeg encoding.
8) Authoring done in DVDSP

This is a laborious process, I know, and I wonder if it doesn't make sense to simply modify the original HDV 25p footage to be 24p in FCP and create scaled NTSC SD sequences straight off. I was just afraid to modify my original source files, and copying all of the HDV source files first and modifying the copied files means double the disk space.

Anyway, I'm frustrated, so if anyone could shed some words of wisdom I would be extremely grateful. Thanks for taking the time to read such a long post.

Marni


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Arnie Schlissel
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 21, 2010 at 3:59:05 pm

You should be able to do all of this with one pass through Compressor. Your Compressor manual will explain the various parts.

You will need to use the Frame and Geometry tabs to change the frame rate and the size. You want to set the speed Frame tab to make the 24p frames play at 25p.

I'm not near my FCP system right now, so I can't be more specific, but the Compressor manual explains all of this.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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Marni Page
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 21, 2010 at 5:10:50 pm

Thanks, Arnie. I'm actually going 25 to 24, not the other way around. But the bigger issue is that I am told that compressor does a terrible job of resizing -- lots of artifacts. Is that true?
Marni


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Michael Sacci
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 22, 2010 at 2:44:59 am

I would do a test but since you are doing the cropping may game plan would be.

1) Retime and convert HDV 25p to ProRes 24p (still HD resolution), this will give you a better codec to work with and it will stand up better through the generations.

2) Edit in a SD ProRes 24p sequence.

3) Export self contained SD ProRes 24p movie.

4) In compressor, encode for m2v and ac3 to take to DVDSP.



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Marni Page
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 22, 2010 at 4:12:50 am

I thought I might have to do something like that. I'm working with 12 finished hours, cut down from 32, so it's a monster. Starting from the beginning would be a nightmare. I do have sequences that contain only the media that I am actually using. I'd rather copy and convert only that media and have it remain linked to my sequence, but how do I do that?

I could copy all the native HDV 25p media that I have now sitting in a finished SD ProRes PAL timeline back into an HDV Pro Res HQ sequence, resize all of my crops again (uuughh), and export self-contained. Then I can re-import this as media (the HDV 24p ProRes movies), conform 25 to 24 and then place it in an NTSC 24p ProRes HQ SD sequence. And go from there.

Does that sound like the right workflow, Michael?

Thanks for your help, by the way.
Marni


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Michael Sacci
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 22, 2010 at 5:47:02 am

[Marni Page] "I'm working with 12 finished hours, cut down from 32"
Info like that is good to start with.





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Michael Sacci
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 22, 2010 at 5:58:26 am

take the sd prores 25p file from step 2 into compressor, use frame control to retime to 24P and do to a NTSC m2v all in one shot. Do a small test and burn to a DVD to judge quality.

Compressor will do a better job than FCP in a lot less steps.

But the answer is in trying and testing.



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Marni Page
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 22, 2010 at 12:52:51 pm

You're right. Sorry I left out the whole scale of the project at the beginning. But I'm happy to have both answers. Now I know going forward how the workflow should look.

I'm going to run a couple of tests based on your recommendations here. I really appreciate your help.

Marni


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Marni Page
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Mar 1, 2010 at 4:15:36 am

Michael,
I'm still having a hard time here. I'm beginning to think it's best if I go back through all of the sequences and resize it back to 100%, effectively restoring my HDV 25p sequence and convert the media to Pro Res and do the downscaling and retiming from there. Can you tell me the best way to get my edits back into an HD sequence? It seems setting up the sequence, cutting and pasting back into it and setting the motion tab back to 100% size isn't doing it. Am I missing something?



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Rafael Amador
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 22, 2010 at 1:42:50 pm

[Marni Page] "But the bigger issue is that I am told that compressor does a terrible job of resizing -- lots of artifacts. Is that true?"
No.
Compressor is very good for downscaling, but you need to set the "Frame Control ON" and Best for the filter.
I would fallow the advise of Arnie.
Compressor will downscale and compress, but it won't be time-base conversion but Conforming. Faster and less process for the picture.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Marni Page
Re: HDV to SD and 25 to 24fps
on Feb 22, 2010 at 11:00:23 pm

Thanks, Rafael. But I didn't get the last part of what you said. Can compressor do the 25p to 24p conversion well, as Arnie indicates? Which controls do I use in Compressor for this (I'm not in front of my machine right now)?
Also, is it ok to bring native HDV into compressor and then go straight to mpeg? Or should I create the prores files as Michael suggests and import that into compressor?

Marni


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