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Greg Barringer
Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 3:50:09 pm

I want to author BD. I have an '09 Mac Pro, FCP7, and I just purchased an internal Panasonic BDR-205 BD burner. I was ready to buy Toast10 until I read posts here and online reviews. Now it looks like Encore is the better solution.

I'm eligible for the upgrade to CS4 Production Premium at $599, I have CS3 Design Premium. I didn't want to upgrade until a future CS5. $599 is a little too much to spend right now. Any advice is welcome.


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Ben Holmes
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 4:37:31 pm

Although I have not had the pleasure of Encore in 12 months (I used the CS3 version and have not touched my CS4 copy), I can tell you that it used to be a disaster for Blu-Ray authoring on the Mac. Although I was eventually able to complete a few fairly simple 2 menu disc, there were a large number of bugs in the Mac release, such that menus did not link properly, buttons 'disappeared', switching outputs from DVD to Blu-Ray (as Adobe widely advertised) was fraught with project settings issues and so on. Builds were hit and miss. Reliability awful.

I could be charitable and assume that some of these issues have been resolved - although until Blu-Ray is officially supported by Apple, I fear it will not be a priority for Adobe. I may never know, since unless I have to, I plan to NEVER use Encore again.

IF it worked as advertised, Encore (although not as elegant a solution as DVDSP) would be a fully featured and fairly simple to operate Blu-Ray authoring tool that (unlike Toast) is capable of producing custom designed and fully featured Blu-Ray releases. Comparing the two products is like comparing quick time player to FCP - one is a simple output tool, the other an authoring solution.

In my experience, Toast works fine for burning Blu-Rays of QTs - and for burning ISOs made in Encore. I never had one failed BD-R copy.

Tragic as it may be - Encore is still the only 'home studio' priced solution for the Mac. What I will say is that if you keep the disks simple, and create an ISO you can burn in Toast, you WILL have a very clean and high quality Blu-Ray at the end of it - it's a remarkably good quality delivery format, providing a 'client-friendly' HD output for those occasions when 'open QT player' is just too complex an instruction.

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
----------------------------
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/casestudies/detail.asp?case=therydercup


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walter biscardi
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 4:42:20 pm

[Ben Holmes] "I can tell you that it used to be a disaster for Blu-Ray authoring on the Mac."

It's still a disaster. Adobe sent me a note telling me they fixed all the bugs from CS3 in CS4. Nope. You can still only reliably make a single "Play Only" Button version BluRay disc.

We use NetBlender's DoStudio for BluRay authoring here. It only runs on Windows, but we spent $1,500 on an HP computer, complete with BluRay burner and haven't looked back since.....

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" now in Post.

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Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.

Blog!

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Steve Eisen
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 5:17:12 pm

If $599 is too much, then $2000 for NetBlender is certainly not an option.

Your best solution to create simple BD's is to use Toast 9 or 10. Keep in mind you do need to buy the Blu-Ray plug-in for both versions.

Look into Matrox's Compress HD card for extremely fast h.264 blu-ray encode times. Yes it will set you back $495 but time is money!!!

NAB is 3 months away!



Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Greg Barringer
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 5:24:13 pm

Thanks, I just bought a Nikon D3S for $5,200 so I need to save up again.


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Greg Barringer
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 5:18:31 pm

Thanks you both, It looks like Toast 10 is the answer. Is there an advantage to the Pro version?


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Jim Scott
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 6:05:22 pm

Toast 10 Pro includes the High-Def/Blu-ray Disc plug-in ($20 separately).

It also includes: Sonicfire Pro, SoundSoap SE, FotoMagico, LightZone if you're interested in those. But when I asked them about those last year they said that they were special "bundle" versions (in other words not the full "normal" versions) and as such may not be upgradeable, or may be limited in features.

If you don't care about those add-ons then the regular Toast plus the Blu-ray plug-in is cheaper.



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Steve Eisen
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 6:05:22 pm

It includes the blu-ray plug and adds some third party software. You have to decide if you need it.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Ben Holmes
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 23, 2010 at 6:06:44 pm

http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/toast/default.html?rTrack=m_pro_toast

Click the compare button - see if any of that applies to you. The plugin is $20 otherwise.

Toast IS the answer if you just want to create 'put disk in and play' disks, or you are blind and so think the menus supplied in Toast are tasteful.

If you can deal with Encore's 'issues', and keep it simple, due to the fact that you can use your own video backgrounds for a play menu, as well as design artwork in Photoshop and drop it straight in, you will certainly (eventually) achieve a much more professional look - as you would in DVDSP. Just without the ease of use.

I ONLY use Toast for autoplaying disks and burning ISOs - it's on-screen options are ghastly.

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
----------------------------
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/casestudies/detail.asp?case=therydercup


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 24, 2010 at 1:14:51 am

We use Toast 10 to make first-play BluRay discs and so far they have played fine in ever player we could find. However a double menu version using Toast's menu options would NOT play in almost any BluRay player we tried, and it only sort of played in a Sony.

So we are limited to First play BluRay discs and these are perfect if they are looping. If not we put a pile of black at the end so the player keeps playing but just shows black....eventually they eject the disc!

We also mostly burn these "BluRay" discs to standard DVD media which is the best "secret" of all! A simple 20ยข DVD disc makes a perfect BluRay disc every time as long as your content is under 30 minutes. Longer? Just use a BluRay disc. YOu can even burn these on a DVD burner.

Thanks Toast!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production and Post
Owner/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Steve Eisen
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 24, 2010 at 3:08:38 am

I do not have problems with double menu BD's created in Toast 10.

I have two different Blu-Ray players. Panasonic and Magnavox. The firmware on both units are up to date.

What is your workflow in Toast?

I create h.264 in Compressor. I also have the Matrox Compress HD card and Episode in my system. Encode times are just under realtime. Original footage is DVCPro HD, 720 or 1080.

I drop the h.264 into Toast, Toast asks for the ac3 file and I manipulate the menus. I'll create a disc image if I need to make more than one copy. I'm using the Pioneer BDR-103 burner.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 24, 2010 at 6:44:25 pm

I'm surprised no one mentioned that you can make Blu-ray discs right out of Final Cut Pro. Have you explored the "Share" protocol? I've burned 100 discs already with no issue.

Kevin Monahan
60 Blu-ray Templates for Final Cut Studio 2009
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author - Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro


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Greg Barringer
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 24, 2010 at 7:15:18 pm

I've used FCP to burn AVCHD to DVDSP using the regular superdrive. Are you using a BD burner?


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Michael Sacci
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 25, 2010 at 3:48:00 am

Look up the new features of FCP7 and Compressor. For these BluRay disc you DO NOT go into DVDSP.



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Greg Barringer
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 25, 2010 at 3:55:47 am

Thanks, I ordered Toast 10 Pro.


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Craig Sawchuk
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 25, 2010 at 1:48:24 pm

Just curious -- will compressor allow you to burn Blu Ray content onto DVD media using a DVD burner that will reliably play in Blu Ray players? Never tried this but it could be a good bridge....



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Rich Rubasch
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 26, 2010 at 2:15:26 am

Not sure, but Toast does it pretty effortlessly.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production and Post
Owner/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Alan Lacey
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 26, 2010 at 4:54:24 pm

Toast won't burn you a BD that you can replicate from. I found that out the hard way.

Alan

FlashXDR,XDcamHD,XDcamEX,D9 etc
FCS,AE,Combustion,LiquidSilver,Vegas,Edius,
G5,MBP,Vista64,XP


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Larry Applegate
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 27, 2010 at 2:43:25 am

Hi Alan,

We offer BluStreak Premaster for replication from both Toast and Encore (or any BD authoring application). It was released last May.

Regards,

Larry Applegate
http://blustreak.dvdafteredit.com/


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Greg Barringer
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 29, 2010 at 5:28:30 pm

I now have FCP7, Toast10 Pro, Panasonic burner BDR-205 on a Mac Pro eight core and a BD-RE to test with. 50 BD-R are on the way.

I'm trying to use Toast to author a BD with a menu. The results are horrible, I believe this is caused by Toast encoding. If I use Share directly from FCP it looks outstanding on a Sony BD350 and LCD TV but there is no menu. I also tired Share to create a BDMV folder which works in Toast and looks great but doesn't have a Toast menu.

I've tried different settings in Compressor but Toast Encodes it each time. Any ideas?



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Greg Barringer
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jan 29, 2010 at 7:50:12 pm

I'm slowly getting there. Toast is still encoding but it looks better.


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Matt McMakin
Re: Toast 10 vs Encore
on Jun 13, 2010 at 8:38:09 pm

The last post in this thread was a few months back, hows it working out? I've been using Toast 10.x for a while to make review/simple playback discs on BD-R, BD-RE. However just bought two new PS3 Slims in the last month and no RE discs will play on them. Although BD-R ones do work just fine. I tried discs (Panasonic, same Samsung burner) just published and those made over a year ago, nothing. All these RE discs play on a PS3 Slim bought in the fall.

Been looking all over for what Sony might have changed, nothing found yet. Anybody hear of what might be going on? Or suggestions for another Blu-ray player that's good and compatible with BD-R/RE?

Thanks,

Matt


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