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Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....

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Andrew Kasch
Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....
on Dec 17, 2009 at 12:10:37 am

Here's my dilemma:

I'm about to start editing a documentary. This will be for both SD DVD & Blue Ray releases, so I need to be sure I get the technical stuff just PERFECT for delivery.

The interviews (and thus the project settings) were shot HDTV 1080i, 23.98.

Now here's the kicker: I have b-roll I'm capturing from a wide variety of sources. Most of it is standard def DVDs and old VHS tapes. What are the best conversion tools to get these clips to HD 23.98? I know I'm not gonna get BETTER looking clips, I just don't want to lose any quality in the process.

I've tried using MPEG Streamclip to convert to HD with varied results. Some of the clips look just fine, others are kinda jumpy. Some people have told me to convert using Compressor, but I'm not sure what settings will work best.

Also, should I worry about multiple formats in frame rates for the SD DVD release? Could I conceivably work with all these formats, output the whole thing to SD DVD in Compressor and worry about the HD version later?

I just want to make sure my ass if covered on a technical level so we don't run to any surprises down the road.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....
on Dec 17, 2009 at 1:20:08 am


1080 at 23.98 is usually progressive.

Blu-ray only supports 1080i @ 30fps & 1080P @ 24fps

your best route is to get someone or yourself with
a kona 3 and capture it with upconversion on.

otherwise its going to end up just the way you describe.
there are not many options.



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Shane Ross
Re: Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....
on Dec 17, 2009 at 1:31:35 am

What Chris said:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/aja_kona3.php



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Alan Okey
Re: mixed formats
on Dec 17, 2009 at 5:54:17 am

I just did finishing work on an independent DV feature that was shot in 24pA. Due to camera operator error, about 30% of the footage was shot as 29.97i, a pretty major screw-up. The editor had tried to convert the 29.97i to 24p using Magic Bullet in After Effects, and the results were simply awful. I was pretty sure that I could get better results using Compressor, so I did a few test clips.

To my astonishment, the Compressor-converted clips looked AMAZING, as if they had always been 24p. Out of around 60 clips, only one or two had slight artifacts that were only visible on very close inspection. I ended up batch converting all of the 29.97i footage to 24p using Compressor, and the client was ecstatic. The converted clips match the native 24p clips perfectly - no one would ever know the difference from watching the film.

The optical flow / motion estimation technology that Apple inherited form Shake works wonders in Compressor for format conversions. The devil is in the details - Frame controls need to be turned on in the inspector tab, and there are specific settings to use for the best results. It's too lengthy to go through them all in this post, but feel free to PM me if you need assistance.

Compressor can't make SD footage look as good as HD when scaling it up, but when it comes to conforming all of your source footage to a uniform frame rate, it works extremely well. Maybe not Teranex quality, but quite usable nonetheless. You may want to show 4:3 SD footage pillarboxed (black bars on the sides) to avoid the further degradation of scaling it up to fit the 16:9 frame.


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walter biscardi
Re: Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....
on Dec 17, 2009 at 1:53:42 pm

We're editing a documentary now that's 720p/60 and we use the AJA Kona 3 to convert everything, and I mean everything to 720/60 during ingest. This way we're only editing in the one timeline.

So far our material has come from DVCPro HD, BetaSP, BetaSX, DigiBeta, DVCAM and HDV sources in all varying frame rates. But it's a piece of cake to handle all of this with the Kona 3 though in your case the AJA Kona LHi can probably do what you need for 1/2 the price.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
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Biscardi Creative Media

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Alan Okey
Re: Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....
on Dec 17, 2009 at 2:47:10 pm

I wasn't aware that the Kona could do frame rate conversion on ingest. Does it do actual frame rate conversion, i.e. 29.97i to 24p, or merely remove 3:2 pulldown on 24p material shot over 29.97i?


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Shane Ross
Re: Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....
on Dec 17, 2009 at 6:11:16 pm

[Alan Okey] "I wasn't aware that the Kona could do frame rate conversion on ingest."

It doesn't. Well, it only does similar Hz conversions. 59.94 to 29.97, or 29.97 to 59.94. It won't do 29.97 to 23.98 or vise versa. Look at my article... you have to use Compressor to get from 29.97 or 59.94 to 23.98.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Alan Okey
Re: Editing documentary with multiple frame rates....
on Dec 17, 2009 at 7:26:40 pm

I own the LHe and I'm familiar with its capabilities. Walter's post gave the impression that the Kona 3 might be of help in the OP's case where frame rate conversion was involved - it apparently won't, and the OP should be made aware of that. I'm pretty familiar with the format conversion capabilities of Compressor, as outlined in my earlier post in this thread.


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