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Rudolf McClain
Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 4:32:30 am

Hello,

Just digitized dvx100a 24pA footage following FCP7 guidelines.

Digitized just fine.

But everything seems to default to 3:2 the footage and sequence windows show a squished image (4:3 squished to 3:2)

I've been able to go in and manually change a bunch of settings to get the sequence to show 4:3 but it outputs (default) to quicktime stretched to 3:2.

I would love to know how to setup a 4:3 projects, sequences, clips

Any pointers, links or references would be much appreciated.

Thanks!


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Howard Ferguson
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 6:49:07 am

Hi Rudolf,

I'm sorry to say I don't have an answer for you.

I think I'm having the same problem right now.
Except I'm in 24p.

There doesn't appear to be a setting that does not Warp the aspect ratio.
In attempt to fix this, I created a 4:3 custom Capture Preset setting, but it has the same result as the others.

Also, my Preset sets Anamorphic to OFF, but the generated QT file it is ON.
My Preset Frame Size 640x480, but the generated QT file is 720x480.
My Preset sets Pixel Aspect to Square, but the generated QT file is NTSC-CCIR 601.

(And here is no Video Playback setting that is 4:3 ratio.)

I've tried an array of Capture Preset settings but-All footage Captured from the DVX100A results in a stretched out image in the Quicktime movie the Capture generates.

What was originally a Letterbox image (4:3) is stretched out to a 720x480 Quicktime movie.
Stretched out wider than the image appears in the Log and Capture monitor, or the camera monitor.

I can change various settings in Final Cut to put those QT movie clips back in the proper aspect for use in Final Cut, but-

I'm still trying to discover how to generate a proper QT movie created from the Capture function, coming in from the DVX100A-

A generated Quicktime movie that is the proper aspect ratio from the start, in the Capture generated Quicktime files.

Any help with this would be wonderful !
I'd greatly appreciate learning what I'm doing wrong.

Howard Ferguson


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 7:19:41 am

Thanks for posting. Sounds like what I've gone through.

I have been able to export a proper 4:3 quicktime movie despite the stretched image in FCP.

I'll post if when I get answers. I thought since it is such a popular camera it would be easy to manage in FCP 7

cheers

Rudy


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Bret Williams
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 9:03:29 am

DV is 720x480. You can't change that on capture. The pixels of DV, like most SD sources are not square, they are rectangular. The computer displays them pixel for pixel, and since the pixels on the computer are square, you see a squashed image. If you wish the QT to playback as 4:3 , change it's playback setting in QT Player to 640x480 , or export it as 640x480 as something else like h.264. DV files have to be 720x480z.


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Howard Ferguson
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 10:51:41 am

Hi Bret,

Thank you very much for this information !

DV files have to be 720x480z.

And here is why.
The pixels of DV, like most SD sources are not square, they are rectangular.

My approach to fixing this situation with the QT files has been to:
Make a Setting in Compressor to adjust the Aspect/Size, and some other stuff-
And running them through it.

What is the highest resolution solution to this situation ?


Thanks very much for all this help !

Howard Ferguson


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Howard Ferguson
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 10:53:39 am

Hi Rudy,

That's very interesting.

When you say-
I have been able to export a proper 4:3 quicktime movie despite the stretched image in FCP.

What do you mean by Export ?

I'm guessing you mean an Export a movie from Final Cut ?
Not a Capture from the DVX100A ?

Are your QT movies created at Capture not "Squished" ?
The QT movies in your Capture Scratch Folder ?

I'm really glad you've asked these questions !

Cheers !

Howard Fergusion


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 4:56:30 pm

Great.

Thank you Howard. Much appreciated.

The captured clip is 720x480. So that means that everything is fine.

But... how can I change the view in FCP7 to view it as the 4:3 while editing.

Thanks.


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Howard Ferguson
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 6:06:51 pm

Hi Rudolf,

I'd suggest looking under the Edit menu, at:
Edit > Item Properties > Format

There is an option for Anamorphic there.

Unlike most of the properties, you can change the Anamorphic setting in this window. If it's checked, it's ON. Click that check to Uncheck, and turn it OFF.

I find that every Capture from my DVX100A requires turning OFF the Anamorphic in this way.

It seems like a very odd default setting, and I haven't found a way to set the Default to OFF yet. I'd like to know how to do that.

The Capture Preset does not have an option for Anamorphic

It's very odd that the Anamorphic setting does not appear in the Browser window.

Great to discuss this stuff !

Howard


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 4:59:20 pm

Have you checked the footage in the Browser? Is there a check mark in the Anamorphic column? If no, select all the clips set the check mark and see what happens when you put the first one into an empty edit timeline.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Howard Ferguson
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 6:27:23 pm

Hi Rudolf,

I have been able to export a proper 4:3 quicktime movie despite the stretched image in FCP.

I'm very interested in precisely what your Capture Settings are.

My QT movies always come into Final Cut with their Anamorphic errantly turned ON. And I haven't found a way to keep that from happening with the QT files.

Quicktime v10.0 (51) doesn't have an Anamorphic control.

Thanks !

Howard


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 7:17:40 pm

Thanks all.

Capture is fine.

I uncheck ANAMORPHIC for my sequence and drop the clip in. I get the error saying my clip differs from the sequence settings, accept adjustment. go back into the sequence settings and uncheck ANAMORPHIC again and the sequence plays just fine.

two things. The LEFT viewer window doesn't match the aspect ratio of the sequence window. The clip in the left (the same clip that is in the sequence) is squished flatter than 720x480.

second. When i drag a new sub clip (mark in and out) of the original clip to add a second clip to the sequence, the second clip (wich is a subclip of the first clip) is squished the same as the viewer (more squished than 720x480)

help.

Thanks!!!

Best,

Rudy


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 7:20:55 pm

[Rudolf McClain] "I uncheck ANAMORPHIC for my sequence and drop the clip in. I get the error saying my clip differs from the sequence settings, accept adjustment. go back into the sequence settings and uncheck ANAMORPHIC again and the sequence plays just fine. "

From this description, it would appear you didn't create an anamorphic DV sequence properly in the first place.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 7:36:37 pm

ok. maybe if I lay it all out I'll see what I'm missing....

I shot DVX100a 24pA and used letterbox crop (not squeeze) so it just adds black bars to top and bottom of the 4:3 image.

Captured DV NTSC 48 KHz Advanced pulldown removal

The captured clip is 720x400 (found information from the captured file using finder) and that's fine.

Created a new sequence: DV NTSC 48 KHz - 23.98

Drop clip in and receive error: "attention this clip does not match this sequence's settings.... Change sequence settings to match the clip settings?" I choose yes.

It looks squished in the sequence window (squish matches the viewer (LEFT) window)

I say hmmmm.... I'd like to work with this sequence in a not so squished way.

so I go into the sequence's settings and uncheck ANAMORPHIC and the sequence window looks fine.

now the left window view doesn't match the right. Left squished, right not.

I make a subclip of the original clip and drop that in after the first clip in the sequence.

the sequence plays the first clip fine and the second clip squished.

Thanks.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 7:46:35 pm

[Rudolf McClain] "I shot DVX100a 24pA and used letterbox crop (not squeeze) so it just adds black bars to top and bottom of the 4:3 image. "

Then you simply have a normal 4x3 image. You don't have Anamorphic DV, so if you use it in an anamorphic edit timeline, it will look funny.

Live and learn, I guess.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 7:54:25 pm

Thanks dave. how do i create a 4x3 timeline? in FCP 7


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 7:58:38 pm

Very simple: make sure the Browser's anamorphic column is NOT checked for the footage. Then drag into an empty edit timeline. After you let FCP make the changes to the timeline, if any, you should see 4x3 video with a letterbox.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 8:08:51 pm

When you say "make sure the Browser's anamorphic column is NOT checked for the footage"

do you mean... "(When creating a new sequence) make sure the Browser's anamorphic column is NOT checked for the footage"

I created a new sequence 720x480 anamorphic NOT checked. dragged my clip in, chose YES to timeline adjustment, went back into the sequence settings and ANAMORPHIC WAS checked again.

when I uncheck it and then check "correct for aspect ratio" in the sequence window it looks correct.

when i drag in another clip the second clip look squished.

thanks sooooo much for your help. much appreciated.

best,

Rudy


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 9:22:22 pm

How about if you make it easy on yourself and use the DV Easy Setup?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 9:28:59 pm

Thanks Dave,

I did. "DV-NTSC 24p (23.98) Advanced Pulldown Removal"


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 9:32:15 pm

[Rudolf McClain] ""DV-NTSC 24p (23.98) Advanced Pulldown Removal""

That's a CAPTURE PRESET and not an EASY SETUP. I suggest you look the two terms up in your FCP manual.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 9, 2009 at 9:49:56 pm

Thanks Dave,


That is the easy setup.

FINAL CUT PRO > EASY SETUP.. > Format: NTSC --- Rate: 23.98fps --- USE: "DV-NTSC 24p (23.98) Advanced Pulldown Removal"

Isn't that the easy setup. If not let me know where to find it as I'm sure it would be most helpful.

thanks Dave.... sure appreciate your sticking with me on this.

:)


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Bret Williams
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 14, 2009 at 5:01:37 am

Wow. Please someone put a stop to the newbie discussion! Just kidding. You guys are confusing yourselves and even Dave at one point.

Ok - you're not shooting ANY anamorphic. Don't touch anything dealing with anamorphic. Don't check any anamorphic boxes in columns. Don't check an anamorphic setting in any timeline. DV is DV is DV. It's always 720x480. If you shot it anamorphic, that simply tells the SEQUENCE how to deal with the distortion of the image. If you HAD shot an anamporphic image (which you should have instead of letterbox, but too late now - there's no reason to shoot letterbox that I can think of) dragging the letterbox image into a 4:3 sequence would letterbox it to keep it's 16:9 ratio. But - you didn't. You shot a 4:3 image with black bars at top and bottom (effectively wasting 30 percent of your available SD resolution. And in a HD world at that).

So, make sure it's not marked anamorphic on capture or in the browser. Same thing.
Then, create a standard DV 4:3 sequence. Drop the clip in. It shouldn't ask to reformat anything.

The whole squished thing you're thinking is some sort of anamorphic is what confused you guys from the beginning. In the canvas window you'll see a full down menu and you can choose to turn on and off the pixel aspect ratio correction. Make sure that is set so it doesn't display squished like in QT. I forget the exact wording. But it defaults to the correct setting. You've probably changed it at some point in experimenting. To show it correctly in QT, change the display size to 640x480, OR change the aperture to Production or Clean.


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 14, 2009 at 5:48:14 am

Thanks for the post. Much appreciated. I'll give it a shot.


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Howard Ferguson
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 14, 2009 at 12:10:51 pm

Hi Bret,

Thanks for your info !
It was quite helpful.

It seems I've discovered my problem with Quicktime is that:
QT 10 displays the movies in the wrong aspect.
QT 7.6.3 displays the movies just fine, with no alteration needed.

What is the highest possible resolution setting on the DVX100A, if you are shooting in 24p ?

And the highest possible resolution Setting for Capturing from the Camera to Final Cut ?

Thanks !

Howard


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Rudolf McClain
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 16, 2009 at 3:19:47 am

I knew there had to be something up!!!!!!

Well. I figured it out. When in help section of FCP7 even if on capture you have anamorphic unchecked, if your camera (mine is DVX100a - shooting 24pa - black bars top and bottom) has a setting that passes an anamorphic "FLAG" (as apple FCP7 states in help) it will mark it as anamorphic anyway ("weather anamorphic is checked or not in the capture settings" -APPLE). That's why when I unchecked anamorphic for my sequences it kept saying that my footage didn't match my sequence.

SOLUTION: right click the capture clip > item properties > format and uncheck ANAMORPHIC.

Now my (unchecked anamorphic) sequences match my non anamorphic footage.

Thank you everyone

Best

Rudy


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Howard Ferguson
Re: Squished DV footage (DVX100A 24pA)
on Dec 18, 2009 at 1:57:01 am

Hi Rudy,

Thanks for all this info !

I'm not certain what you mean when you say:

SOLUTION: right click the capture clip > item properties > format and uncheck ANAMORPHIC

Do you mean you need to change this for every clip, after they are Captured ?

If so, that's what I posted the other day as the only fix I'd found.

Do you have a fix, that will change all the clips coming in, to save changing each one individually ?

Thanks for your help with this !

Howard


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