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Change Field Order with Kona LHe

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Andrew Saliga
Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 8, 2009 at 10:09:04 pm

I've heard this, but am looking for confirmation...

I've heard the Kona can only change field order when capturing, not during output. I have 1080i29.97 footage that is upper field first. I need to downconvert through the Kona to SD which is lower field order.

Is this a task for Compressor?

-Andrew Saliga

Steelehouse Productions
http://www.steelehouse.com (undergoing a much-needed redesign)
http://www.vimeo.com/steelehouse


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 8, 2009 at 10:45:47 pm

The Lhe can and will handle a prope downconvert to sd.

Jeremy


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Andrew Saliga
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 8, 2009 at 11:10:06 pm

Hmm. Source sequence is 1080i29.97 so I set my Kona control panel's frame buffer to match. On the output (component out to Beta deck) I have it set to downconvert to 525i29.97.

The quality is horrible. A slight flicker is present, but there is are also diagonal striations...almost like signal noise, but I suspect it's a conversion issue.

Source footage was shot on a RED and converted to 1080i29.97 before we received it.

I tested using the Kona with these settings a second time and something is still off.

-Andrew Saliga

Steelehouse Productions
http://www.steelehouse.com (undergoing a much-needed redesign)
http://www.vimeo.com/steelehouse


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Chris Borjis
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 8, 2009 at 11:22:50 pm


maybe check your easy setup?

make sure it matches your sequence settings?

1080 HD to SD should work quite while through the kona



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Andrew Saliga
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 8, 2009 at 11:25:27 pm

They match. It's not a Beta deck or component out issue. I still see it going through SDI to Digi. Tried relaunching FCP, trying a system reboot now.

-Andrew Saliga

Steelehouse Productions
http://www.steelehouse.com (undergoing a much-needed redesign)
http://www.vimeo.com/steelehouse


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Andrew Saliga
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 8, 2009 at 11:33:36 pm

Rebooted. No fix.

-Andrew Saliga

Steelehouse Productions
http://www.steelehouse.com (undergoing a much-needed redesign)
http://www.vimeo.com/steelehouse


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Andrew Saliga
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 9, 2009 at 12:19:10 am

After few reboots and relaunches of FCP the interlacing issue seems to have corrected itself. There were still diagonal striations visible on my client monitor. I snagged another client monitor from one of the other suites and the issue is not there.

It's either one of the outputs of the deck (I did switch these at one point.) or the client monitor in my suite going bad it seems. Either way it's resolved.

Moral of the story I guess is to check the hardware end of the video pipeline (cables, connections, monitors, etc.) then move on to software and configuration - especially if they've worked in the past.

It's really basic video troubleshooting 101, so I should have thought of it much sooner.

-Andrew Saliga

Steelehouse Productions
http://www.steelehouse.com (undergoing a much-needed redesign)
http://www.vimeo.com/steelehouse


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Andrew Saliga
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 9, 2009 at 12:19:35 am

Oh, Jason and Chris, thanks for the input.

-Andrew Saliga

Steelehouse Productions
http://www.steelehouse.com (undergoing a much-needed redesign)
http://www.vimeo.com/steelehouse


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 9, 2009 at 3:26:34 pm

[Andrew Saliga] "Jason"

Who's that ;)

How did you get 1080i from Red material?


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Andrew Saliga
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 9, 2009 at 9:11:14 pm

Sorry, Jeremy, haha. It was one of those days full of chaos.

You were correct about the Kona handling the interlacing. Most of the time I'm not editing around here, just handling output and compressions, so often I have some catching up to do on the workflow that was used. I've made some adjustments today to my deck and client monitor. I think the reboot still corrected some weird issues I was having, but I also tossed the cable I was using. Somehow an old RCA with BNC adapters on the ends made its way into my office.

Gary:

I double checked the frame buffer, rather than set it. So yes, it was controlled by use of an Easy Setup.

I have no issues with setting up the downconversion. It just seems the issues were caused by a few other problems I have mentioned above.

We are mostly a post house, sometimes we do the production, but this time around the footage for these spots was shot by another company on a RED and sent off for basic color correction and telecine. Why it was done this way is beyond me, and is in the hands of the ad agency (our client).

The flicker seems more like a field order mismatch, but it's resolved now.

Sorry, in the chaos I said client monitor, but meant broadcast monitor. I was originally viewing on a Sony Trinitron broadcast monitor - an interlaced CRT with HD support. I brought in a Panasonic BT-LH1700W. (an HD LCD)

There was no scaling involved.



So...the Kona handled all this - for the most part. The new problem only appears on one clip out of four 30 second spots. I have one clip where the pulldown is very noticeable. You can see each time the duplicate frames come up. I read that there can be issues with pulldown on slow, steady shots. ("telecine judder" I guess it's called) This clip in question has no filters applied and codec, framerate, etc. match all other source media.

Is this a case of "telecine judder" and, if so, how do I remove it?



-Andrew Saliga

Steelehouse Productions
http://www.steelehouse.com (undergoing a much-needed redesign)
http://www.vimeo.com/steelehouse


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gary adcock
Re: Change Field Order with Kona LHe
on Dec 9, 2009 at 5:35:03 am

[Andrew Saliga] "Source sequence is 1080i29.97 so I set my Kona control panel's frame buffer to match. On the output (component out to Beta deck) I have it set to downconvert to 525i29.97. "

Why? When using the Easy Setup there should be no need to set the control panel match to the seq settings.

You use the Kona Control to set the downconvert on the component to SD output.

Since Red footage is true P by default ( not PsF) - where and how did you convert it to interlace?

Explain what you mean by flicker? (phasing of the luma or an odd field order)

[Andrew Saliga] "The quality is horrible. A slight flicker is present, but there is are also diagonal striations."

Can I ask what you are viewing the footage on?? The diagonal lines you mention readily occur inside of your Plasma/ LCD when a low quality upconversion is used to poorly to fit the 525 line SD image to fill your massive 1080 HD display.

are you showing the image full image - or is the display converting the signal in Zoom mode ( the default on many of the Sony and LG displays) where any non-hd image is scaled to fit the screen, and is the major cause of the lines and the "ringing" of fine detail like type or in circular lines.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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