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Leonardo De Mai
HDV Pro Res
on Dec 7, 2009 at 3:50:48 pm

Somebody have the same problems :

When I try to capture with Sony HDV-1500 in Apple Pro Res 422(HQ) after about 20 minutes the FCP crash


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Rafael Amador
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 7, 2009 at 4:15:03 pm

Hi Leonardo,
What kind of HDs are you using?
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Leonardo De Mai
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 7, 2009 at 4:46:37 pm

I use the three HD internal of my Mac Pro in raid 0 you think about the speed limit ?

Leonardo


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Tony Brittan
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 7, 2009 at 4:46:59 pm

Yea...that was an issue for me even when using raid drives. Really though, just use regular Prores and everything will be fine! HQ is pretty much overkill. I deliver to DVD, Broadcast, and more so you should be fine!

Tony Brittan
Apple Certified Pro - FCP
islandshoreproductions.com


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Leonardo De Mai
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 7, 2009 at 4:51:46 pm

Thank's Tony,

at the moment I solve the issue, I capture now 15 minutes every time but...is a very strange situations.
So what you tell me if I capture a normal Pro Res all is OK.
Do you try to capture in Pro Res HQ with only one HD ?

Leonardo


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Craig McGillivray
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 7, 2009 at 8:29:08 pm

Leonardo google "Pros Res, A Closer Look". Gary Adcock's helpful paper on all things Pro Res.
HQ is way overkill for HDV


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Rafael Amador
Distorting Information About Prores
on Dec 8, 2009 at 1:46:50 am

Hi Craig
Instead of quoting the Gary's article, what people should do is read it.

Gary haven't state nowhere that Prores HQ overkills nothing.

Read the comment of Gary:

"While comparing the software-converted files I noticed a couple of interesting issues. My testing found that when the camera native codecs (DVCPROHD, HDV or SxS) were converted to ProRes in software they universally ran better when using the Standard version of ProRes rather than choosing the HQ version".

From this to say that Prores HQ OVERKILL, there is a lot of fantasy.

Somebody says overkill and people keeps repeating that like parrots.
How can more compression be better?
Use Prores SQ only if you can not use HQ, and use a compressed format only if you can not work in Uncompress.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Distorting Information About Prores
on Dec 8, 2009 at 5:55:31 am

[Rafael Amador] "Somebody says overkill and people keeps repeating that like parrots. How can more compression be better? "

Rafael my friend,

No one is saying more compression is better. The point is, every video format has a data rate beyond which there is little or no improvement in performance, and the only thing achieved by exceeding that data rate is simply the creation of larger files.

ProRes was designed as a "high performance," yet very economical codec, and the argument many of us make, which you don't seem to agree with, is simply that ProRes SQ delivers a level of performance good enough for most, if not for all, work at HD resolution, and that there is precious little, if anything, gained by using HQ data rates at HD resolutions, other than the increased file size.

Wouldn't we all be boosting the data rate of DV to something approximating that of 4K video if there were really something to gain by doing so?

I think the argument comes down to the question that, if there is in fact a loss of information, but the loss is imperceivable, is there any use in chasing after that missing information?

It's an interesting discussion Rafael, and there is probably no absolute right or wrong answer that applies universally in all cases. It will be interesting to see what the others here have to add.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Distorting Information About Prores
on Dec 8, 2009 at 12:17:41 pm

David my friend,
I agree with you in most of your considerations.
I was not trying to discuss about Prores, I was pointing that people refers to the article of Gary as he would said "NEVER Prores HQ: OVERKILL".
He haven't said so. Gary talk about a very concrete scene and people take out of context his words.
I've already read few post were the people states that Prores HQ should be used only for 2K. Apple do not say so. Some people have the idea that going to HQ can even harm their picture.
For me to say that something is "good enough" means that can be improved. People should simply know that if Prores SQ is "good enough", Prores HQ is better.
cheers,
Rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Distorting Information About Prores
on Dec 8, 2009 at 5:32:12 pm

[Rafael Amador] "People should simply know that if Prores SQ is "good enough", Prores HQ is better. "

Well, we absolutely know for a fact that the video files will be bigger, but whether the files are actually better is a whole different matter.

Again I would say, that if the difference is so minor as to be imperceptible at HD resolution, then using HQ may not make sense. The answer is very much dependent on whether you or your audience have the hardware to see the difference, and whether your material is of sufficient quality that it makes any real difference when raising the data rate. However, it's not as simple as saying bigger is better.



David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Distorting Information About Prores
on Dec 9, 2009 at 5:56:13 am

[David Roth Weiss] " The answer is very much dependent on whether you or your audience have the hardware to see the difference, and whether your material is of sufficient quality "
That's the real problem David: What the eye don't see.
Before reach the audience, the HSL Key in the Color's Secondary Rooms, for example, may have something to say, my dear David.
Any way I talk from a theoretical point of view. I haven't see so far any proper test comparing both. SQ and HQ.
I've been working "bits-hungry' for many years (DV, FW400, EX-1..) and I don't want my pictures starve anymore.
Those extra bits that may be ignored, because your eyes don't see the difference, can be critical at the end of the process. I stopped to fully trust my eyes some time ago.
Sure we have to adapt our workflow to the our pocket, but lets don't forget which is the "10" workflow.
Cheers,
rafael




http://www.nagavideo.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 8, 2009 at 1:50:13 am

Hi Leonardo,
With your RAID you shouldn't have problem in capturing Prores HQ and even 8b Uncompress.
IMHO you will be fine just running DiskWarrior or TechTools.
A bit of System maintenance and I bet you that your issues finish.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Leonardo De Mai
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 8, 2009 at 7:20:49 am

Dear all,

what I want to say is just this is a bug form Apple Pro Res Codec and Snow Leopard, because as I know my system usually works with YUV 8- bit uncompressed this means about 21 MB/S, Pro Res HQ capture at 19 MB/S, so the only problems what I see is only a big bug.
If someone have the solutions I very appreciate, but real solution.

Thank you

Leonardo De Mai


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Rafael Amador
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 8, 2009 at 4:10:43 pm

Sure that David won't disagree if I suggest you to rebuild all your HDs directories with DiskWarrior, TechTools or DriveWizard.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: HDV Pro Res
on Dec 8, 2009 at 5:59:18 pm

[Rafael Amador] "Sure that David won't disagree if I suggest you to rebuild all your HDs directories with DiskWarrior, TechTools or DriveWizard. "

Well, I'm only 100% certain of Disk Warrior. There is absolutely no reason to fear Disk Warrior. I don't use the other apps however.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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