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59.94 to 23.98 down convert problem

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Hoon Kang
59.94 to 23.98 down convert problem
on Dec 1, 2009 at 12:28:30 pm

I'm currently working as an assitant editor on a feature documentary, and a former assistant editor had digitized all footage at 720p 59.94.
Because now we have more than 100 hours of footage, the FCP project is getting bigger and rendering takes long time, so I have down converted all footage to 720x480 DV 23.98 since we will go to online house to build HD project again when finished.
However, most of footage looks fine at 23.98, but I noticed some clips jitter and frames don't conform to our original HD clips. It's weird because I used the same settings for everything through compressor but most footage looks good and frames match the timecode of original HD clips but some clips are 1 frame off and the video has jitter when played back. I think it's the pulldown issue but can't seem to figure out. I tried every different settings on compressor (frame control) but still no luck.
Is there any way I can tell compressor to do pulldown on different frames? Am I missing something? It took me 3 full days to convert all footage and I really need this to work. Please help.


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Shane Ross
Re: 59.94 to 23.98 down convert problem
on Dec 1, 2009 at 5:54:31 pm

[Hoon Kang] " a former assistant editor had digitized all footage at 720p 59.94. "

OK...look at that...

[Hoon Kang] "so I have down converted all footage to 720x480 DV 23.98"

And then look at that. BIG MISTAKE! Your frame rates do not match at all, so when you go to online, you are in for a world of hurt. Stop now. Trash all of those files, and downconvert to DV 29.97

[Hoon Kang] "most of footage looks fine at 23.98, but I noticed some clips jitter and frames don't conform to our original HD clips."

See? It won't conform because the frame rates are different. You started down the wrong path when you converted frame rates. You must double back and go down the correct path. Although I am not sure that even DV at 29.97 will conform back to 59.94 well...you are still in a different frame rate.

[Hoon Kang] "Is there any way I can tell compressor to do pulldown on different frames? "

Don't remove pulldown! No no no no no no no! Your original imports don't have it removed...they are 59.94. So your offline clips must match that frame rate as close as possible. To tell you the truth, I'd forget the offline editing/relinking headache that you are obviously gonna have. Render times might be slightly longer with DVCPRO HD, but really, the saved headache in the online will be worth it.

[Hoon Kang] " Am I missing something? It took me 3 full days to convert all footage and I really need this to work."

As mentioned above...wrong frame rate. That 3 days work is all for nothing... gotta trash the files and either work from the original footage, or convert again to DV 29.97. But I say forget that and work on the original footage. Frame rate difference will cause issues.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Hoon Kang
Re: 59.94 to 23.98 down convert problem
on Dec 2, 2009 at 4:28:07 am

Thanks for the reply.
Yes I understand the frame rate does not conform, but the original footage was shot 23.98 and digitized in 59.94. I ran a couple of tests converting 59.94 to 23.98 to make sure, and those converted clips perfectly matched 59.94 clips.
When we play 59.94 clips on FCP timeline, it repeats every 2-3 frames which is not noticeable unless played frame by frame, but successfully downconverted 23.98 clips did not repeat any frames and actually played back progressive clips perfectly.
I also tested converting to 29.97 before even starting this, but for some reason it did not conform 59.94 clips, and again, was jittery.
Yes, I think renting the deck again and re-digitizing everything will be better (I would've downconverted on the fly if we can go back) but we're kind of in the middle of cutting, so converting current clips and re-linking would be better, if at all possible.
Like I mentioned, most of clips are fine, but only some clips are giving me problems.
If this is totally a wrong approach, why do most clips playback perfectly and conform 59.94?
Also if this means I have to re-do all to 29.97, then there goes my weekend again. :(
Anyway, further insight would be appreciated.


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Shane Ross
Re: 59.94 to 23.98 down convert problem
on Dec 2, 2009 at 8:54:21 am

If you shot 23.98, why did you capture 59.94? If you wanted your DV to match your HD, then you should have captured your footage as 23.98...then your DV downconverts at 23.98 would match. But you didn't. You captured as 59.94...so the timecode from the DV downconverts will not match. THAT is the issue. Not quality...timecode.

You need to capture as 23.98, then downconvert...so that your timecode will match. THat is the only way you can relink your sequence to the HD master footage.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Hoon Kang
Re: 59.94 to 23.98 down convert problem
on Dec 2, 2009 at 10:45:44 pm

Yeah, like I said the assistant before me captured everything at 59.94. I would've definitely captured it 23.98 in the first place but now I sort of have to deal with 59.94 digital media.
Anyway, I'm going to try 29.97 down convert again and see if it works.

I figured, if 23.98 tape can be captured at 59.94, then I'm just reversing the process to make it 23.98, aren't I? Does it not work as easy as it sounds?

Say if we just stick to 59.94, can we still make 24P master in the online?

Thanks.


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