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Elizabeth Winter
Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 6:49:00 pm

I've just upgraded to FCP 7.0.1 and when I add a text layer with a drop shadow in video track 2, I get the dropped frames error message after about 1 second of play. (It's the normal Warning- Dropped Frames during playback message, not the "your disks are slow" warning).
I've trashed prefs and plist, repaired my disks, made sure my windows aren't overlapping, restarted, my playback is set to Dynamic... so I can't think of why such a simple composite would drop frames. It never did with FCP 6 and all playback settings are unchanged. I know another person experiencing the same problem on his identical setup.
Thank you for any advice

Mac OSX10.5.8
2x2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
8GB 800MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM


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Chris Borjis
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 7:04:15 pm


are you rendering all?




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Elizabeth Winter
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 7:10:43 pm

Hi, yes I get the orange bar above the clip (and any alpha graphic I try to use) and if I render it, it plays fine. The problem is in FCP 6 I never had to render, it would play through composites that were much complicated without any rendering. So something is wrong in that it's forcing a render when Dynamic playback should easily be able to handle something this basic (text with drop shadow).


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Shane Ross
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 7:22:18 pm

Yeah...what he said. Adding Drop Shadow makes the text render go from GREEN to ORANGE, and really, with ORANGE, unless you have pretty fast drives (not FW400) or unless you render, you might get dropped frames.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Elizabeth Winter
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 8:22:16 pm

Thanks, guys. The thing is that I didn't get the error message on this exact same composite in FCP 6 and now I do. Once rendered, it plays without error message but the playback is slow over the clip with the alpha. In FCP 6 it played back smooth.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 9:53:33 pm


yeah anything thats green is usually fine, but even on my caldigit
array that can handle anything, orange might drop frames.

if you edit to tape you have to render anyway so might as well
do it to get highest quality playback imo.



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Elizabeth Winter
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 10:03:55 pm

Thanks, guys. The question is not how to render but why in FCP 7 only are frames dropping over simple alphas like text with drop shadow. I used this exact same composition in FCP 6 and there were no dropped frames. I upgrade to 7 and there are dropped frames.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 10:27:23 pm


it could be what happens often with an update....something new is broken
while something that was broken is now fixed.

simple as that...



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Dave Bergan
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 10:48:35 pm

I have the same issues. Things that were not dropping in FC 6 are now. I can not even play EX1 footage with dropping frames, let alone a rendered timeline, and I know the footage and timeline settings match. Though Pro Res seems to play fine, so since I render my effects to Pro Res they play at those points, but real time effects and graphics that have a gray bar drop frames. I replaced my hba, reinitialized my raid, reinstalled OSX, reinstalled FCS, and nothing has worked. I have never had dropped frame issues before, ever.

It looks like a few people have some issues, but I'm still trying to figure out if it's me. I would think if it's Final Cut there would be a lot more people complaining.

Dave


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Elizabeth Winter
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 25, 2009 at 12:38:05 am

Hey Dave,
Where do you weigh in on clean install vs upgrade?


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Dave Bergan
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 25, 2009 at 2:14:13 am

Hey Elizabeth,

I certainly weigh in on doing a clean install, but I also feel the only way to do a real clean install is to redo the whole computer. I used FCS Remover and reinstalled and still had problems. After that I reinstalled the whole system and still had the same problems. I noticed that FCS Remover didn't uninstall everything, things like plugins were still there, so I don't know if there's something like a third party driver causing my problem.

I'm just hoping a new update will clear it up, I check often for one.


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John Fishback
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 11:14:14 pm

I just upgraded to FCP 7.0.1. I tried adding a Text generator (with drop shadow) over a DVCProHD clip, and while I got an orange line, it played fine. I also tried the Boris Title 3D generator with drop and it had no orange - just a pale gray bar and played fine. Did you do a clean install?

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.1, Motion 4.0.1, Comp 3.5.1, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.1)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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Elizabeth Winter
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 24, 2009 at 11:18:04 pm

No, just an upgrade. That's what I'm sort of narrowing it down to too. Anyone do a clean install and experiencing this? In the meantime, I'll clean install.
Thank you.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 25, 2009 at 8:38:40 pm


Of all the posts I've read on this subject, it seems like
nobody is able to have a perfectly running system unless
they do a full on clean install.

upgrades are just not worth doing. the time you save
will ultimately be nixed by whatever odd problems you have
while working.



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noa chan
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 26, 2009 at 4:43:31 am

ok, i've wiped my system and done a clean install.
and still have the problem. but for me the biggest issue is that my audio is crackling. it seems to play fine for a while and then it will suddenly go PZZZZPPP. and once it starts it becomes more frequent - to the point where it is impossible to edit.
i have the drop frame issue too, but i can still live with it.
ok, so i have a mixture of audio clips 48, 44... i know i should have them all 48. but given that my old crappy white macbook could handle it just fine w/ barely over 1gb ram, it seems preposterous that my new 17"MBP can't handle it. (so yes i'm also on snow leopard)

it's just SD footage. nothing fancy.
i have 2 external hard drives connected. 1 FW800, the other an e-SATA, via an express card.
this is so frustrating that i'm almost going to cry.
is it a FCP 7 problem or something else? would it make sense to go back to FCP 6? i've done quite a bit of work in 7 and i'd hate to re-do it all, but right now i can't do ANYTHING.


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John Fishback
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 27, 2009 at 2:38:53 pm

You didn't say how you were monitoring the audio. A common issue with Kona 3 cards is audio popping if ref video is not fed to the card. The mix of audio file sample rates could be related as FCP is doing the sample rate conversion on the fly. Have you rendered the audio tracks?

As for going back to FCP 6, if you have important work to get out, do so. Hopefully, you cloned your drive so that'd be easy.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.1, Motion 4.0.1, Comp 3.5.1, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.1)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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noa chan
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 27, 2009 at 10:05:48 pm

hi john,

thanks for responding.

yes, i rendered the tracks. and it still cracks... and the render ends up containing the crack because when i burn a DVD of the movie, it starts cracking (i burnt 2 copies and tested them on a different computer, they both start cracking at about the same place.)

what do you mean by monitoring audio...? i'm just using the standard/default stuff w/ fcp7 and the mbp.

last night i took out the e-sata drive and switched it to a FW800 enclosure and i managed to go alot further before the sound started breaking again. i ran a hardware test and everything came back as fine....

the mbp shipped w/ 10.6 (SL)...so i'm not sure how well fcp 6 will work on that?


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John Fishback
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Nov 28, 2009 at 12:28:55 am

What I meant is do you have an interface that outputs audio & video - like an IO-HD or similar? Or do you listen to playback from the MBP speakers? I've not read about audio crackling except as it pertains to Kona 3 cards that aren't fed video ref. Last thoughts: Are your audio levels set properly - not clipping? Did you do a Mixdown Audio (Sequence Menu > Render Only > Mixdown)? You can try using Render Manager to trash renders and then re-render.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.1, Motion 4.0.1, Comp 3.5.1, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.1)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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Alan Langdon
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Dec 7, 2009 at 3:46:14 pm

Hi, Noa.

Have you solved your issue yet? I am having the same problem, I upgraded from 6.05 to 7.01 and I get dropped frames on a common-plcae SD DV NTSC sequence, big time frame dropping. I am just going to go back to 6.05, which I have never had to do before: recede to an older version. Apple has dropped the ball, I think, upgrading and letting this huge bug happen. Please let me know what you discover and I will do the same.
Best luck to us all!

Alan

OSX 10.5.8
MacBook Pro 2.2 GHZ 4Gb RAM 160GB HD Lacie External FW 800 drive



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noa chan
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Dec 7, 2009 at 5:32:50 pm

hi alan,

so i went back to the apple store, and had a tech guy who is an experienced editor in FCP. we looked at console and looked at the log and saw that i kept getting an error message looking for an audio plugin (/library/audio/plugins) - sthg like that, so he suggested that i move that plugin so it couldn't pull that anymore. did that, problem still there.

he said otherwise it's really my workflow and i shouldn't mix 44.1 w/ 48khz. so i converted all my audio to 48, problem comes back.

then i noticed that my audio render files and autosave files weren't where i expect them to be (ie where i defined it in FCP) in fact i can't seem to find where they are being saved regularly at all.... i suspect that might be part of the problem?


then i also repair disk permissions every time after the PZZZZP happens, and it's always the same thing that needs to be repaired...

i wish i could switch back down an OS, but because my MBP is spanking new, i can go below snow leopard.... i'm so frustrated that i want to cry. put in a chunk of money and i have less of a system than before.

if you have any breakthroughs, please please let me know...


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Alan Langdon
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Dec 8, 2009 at 11:51:10 am

Noa-

What a complete drag. Unbelievable... I wish I had better news for you. I was able to uninstall using FCS Remover (I know it's sloppy and possibly leaves crumbs behind) and now I am updating my Pro Applications drivers and such to just go back to FCP 6.05... I hadn't gone too far in my current edit so I haven't lost too much work, just time and headaches... Are you still having the dropped frame issue, which is what I have? The audio problem I do not have, but I have been disappointed before with the audio rendering and such, and I always end up thinking I need to learn Soundtrack Pro to do my audio. Do you know this program? Have you tried it?
Which system did you buy spanking new which doesn't go below snow leopard?
The audio renders I think you need to locate and find out why they are not giong where you want them to. I know its a stupid question, but what quality are you choosing in the USer Preferences for playback? When you export a FCP movie, current compression, doe sit go with the audio problems the same? Are you "mixing down" your audios? Apple + Option + R
Sorry to offer lame suggestions, I am not a complete expert. Hopefully you can solve this, and I'll let you know if I get any helpful info.

Best of luck!




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Alex M. White
Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
on Dec 11, 2009 at 12:25:27 pm

Noa,

You are certainly not the only one with this issue. I am having the almost EXACT same problem. I am editing 720 × 480 SD DV footage with 48khz AIFF files, and about half way into my project I started getting the 'Dropped Frames' error followed by horrible PZZZP audio errors and then absolutely no sound was able to be played back: through the internal MacBook Pro speakers, my studio headphones, audio files inside OR outside FCP. I have to restart my entire system to get an audio playing back through any application/output.

I also cannot find my audio render or autosave files anywhere, and I've been setting scratch disks the same way since FCP 4 in '05 through FCP 6 this month.

Here are my specs:
MacBook Pro, OS X v.10.6.2
3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
Internal Drive: 500GB SATA @ 7200 rpm (440GB Available)
External Drive: 120GB LaCie Rugged connected with FW 800 (89GB Available)
Final Cut Studio 3/Final Cut Pro 7.0.1

It just doesn't seem like it should be a hardware issue. I've also:
  • Reduced the playback video quality and frame rate in the RT pop-up menu
  • Played my sequence using the Unlimited RT mode instead of the Safe RT mode.
  • Chosen Play Base Layer Only from the RT pop-up menu.

  • Mind you, I have no other applications/processes running, only have one project open with one sequence open. I thought it must be user error or I was going crazy, but there must be something else. Noa, have you had luck with anything? I've tried both John Fishback's and Alan Langdon's suggestions with no success.

    My five year old PowerBook G4 with Tiger and FCP 6.0.4 worked immeasurably better than this brand new MacBook Pro with Snow Leopard and FCP 7.0.1; that seems very counter-intuitive and wrong to me. Does anyone have any other suggestions or advice on what to try?

    Thank you for your time,
    Alex


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    noa chan
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Dec 11, 2009 at 2:56:51 pm

    hi alex,

    yes, it got to the point where i thought it must be me being a complete idiot but at least now i've found one other person who has the EXACT problem.

    i've tried everything. i'm still at square one.
    do you think it might have sthg to do w/ using the FW800...? i've always set my renders and audio files to go on my external.
    i haven't really tested it w/out the FW800 because i have literally nothing to work w/ on my internal HD. and if i can't use an external HD w/ the MBP, then the machine is simply useless for video editing.


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    Steve Modica
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Dec 14, 2009 at 10:16:21 pm

    I would suggest you look at the cpu meter during playback. I'd be interested to know if one cpu is pegged.


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    noa chan
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Dec 12, 2009 at 6:24:40 am

    alex....
    this may be a very dumb question, but i assume you've tried running all the software updates too, right?
    i am trying again... after that i am thinking of selling my MBP and buying a 2nd hand one that's not on snow leopard.


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    Fernando Pieschacon
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Apr 18, 2010 at 12:01:59 am

    Any solutions yet?

    I'm getting many dropped frames even when all there is in my timeline is a 2 channel AIFF. Projects i edited with no problems in FCP 6 now are almost unworkable unless i turn the dropped frames warning off.

    Browsed Apple forums and found nothing.





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    Philip Hack
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on May 31, 2010 at 10:07:56 pm

    I've got similar problems, seemingly unresolvable. I'm running Snow on a 2.66 8 Core Mac with the latest FCP 7 updates all in with a Kona LHi. I'm using a GSpeed ES Pro 8TB ,4 disk array in Raid 5. The AJA tests tell me my drives don't fall below 200 MB/s on the read side and higher on the write side. I've got a project that's 1080i in a 29.97 ProRes sequence that was originally captured on an EX-3 at 23.98. FCP has put in its crappy 2224 pulldown sequence and everything in the timeline is now fully rendered at 29.97. When I try to print to video, I get dropped frames every time. I'm outputting to an HDCam deck (trying). I've even converted it to a quicktime to try to get it to play out and that doesn't work either. Dropped frames all the time, all at different times in the sequence (never got more than 10 minutes of output). I've trashed the prefs, tried a new user - everything short of wiping the machine. The machine has never run anything but FCP and is about a month old. Any ideas?


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    David Scarborough
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Jun 14, 2010 at 11:09:52 pm

    This may be of some help and interest in regards to this problem as I recently upgrade to FCP 7 and have had the exact same problems and issues with audio and dropped frames as described in this thread.

    I work with XD HD 50mb/s footage and occasionally have to mix this with DVCPro HD footage taken with a P2. In FCP 6 this worked brilliantly with no issues mixing these two formats but now on FCP 7 i'm getting the audio buzzing and dropped frames and it's driving me crazy.

    So, I took someone's suggestion of watching the CPU meters while playing my timeline and also had a look at "All Processes" that were running on my machine (2 x 2.26 GHz Quad Core, 8 GB RAM, Leopard, eSata connected 8TB RAID).

    There are three processes that are "Not Responding". The first two are called CompressorJobController and CompressorTranscoder. I tried canceling them but every time I did it would come back on as a running process and after playing a clip in FCP they would change to "Not Responding". I'm still researching as to what this means and how it can be fixed or if it is something that needs to be fixed.

    The third process that was not responding was labelled "coreaudiod" and it operates on the root user. Again i cancelled the process and it also showed up again but this time it didn't change to not responding. I went back to FCP and played my timeline and there were no more dropped frames and the audio no longer made the pzzzzp sound.

    I'm starting to research now how this can be permanently fixed as I don't want to have to open my Activity Monitor and cancel the process every time i start up.

    Hope this helps those of you who haven't decided to downconvert to FCP 6 as I was so nearly ready to do as well.


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    Philip Hack
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Jun 15, 2010 at 10:37:49 pm

    Hi David,

    I will take a look and see if I have those same problems. Thanks,

    Philip


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    Leon Lewis
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Jun 16, 2010 at 9:08:16 pm

    Hi David,

    Have you found any solution to this yet? I have been running into the same problems....

    Best,


    Leon Lewis

    "Standing on the shoulders of giants."


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    Anthony Dias
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Sep 11, 2010 at 6:44:31 pm

    I just want to add to the chorus of unhappy FCP 7 users who keep getting dropped frames whereI shouldn't be getting them at all. Specifically: DV-NTSC timelines. Trust me, I have worked on way lower-end machines without these types of problems, including my first generation MacBook and G5 Power Macs.

    So, my conclusion, after hours of trouble shooting is that either the FCP 7.x update is SUPER BUGGY or there is a hardware incompatibility in my system... which is technically still a bug right?

    Oh, and all my software and hardware drivers are UP TO DATE as of today.

    Some potential problematic hardware that I have connected to my machine (see machine profile at end):

    - Digidesign MBox 2 Pro (which is on it's own FireWire PCI card because it used to cause my audio to stop working)
    - Matrox MXO2 LE w/Max
    - G-Safe (2x2TB)
    - ColorMunki (definitely has cause some headaches as well with Motion showing blank canvases)


    here's my system:

    Model Name: Mac Pro
    Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
    Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
    Processor Speed: 3 GHz
    Number Of Processors: 2
    Total Number Of Cores: 8
    L2 Cache (per processor): 12 MB
    Memory: 14 GB


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    Shane Ross
    Re: Dropped frames in FCP 7
    on Sep 11, 2010 at 11:30:43 pm

    [Anthony Dias] "- Digidesign MBox 2 Pro (which is on it's own FireWire PCI card because it used to cause my audio to stop working)"

    Disconnect this... now do you get dropped frames? Uninstall the drivers...now?

    I had a system where the producers wanted a station to be the online station AND ProTools station (audio engineer worked on the system at night). When I installed the Digitdesign MBOX Pro, my system didn't function well at all. Didn't like it. So, I uninstalled it. Installed a second hard drive, installed a fresh OS on that, then the ProTools and MBOX drivers on that, and booted to that drive when going to a ProTools mix. I even unplugged the unit from my system when I worked.

    That might be your issue...incompatible hardware/software.

    [Anthony Dias] "- ColorMunki (definitely has cause some headaches as well with Motion showing blank canvases)"

    This too. Disconnect...then uninstall. See if things persist.

    Shane



    GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
    Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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