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Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res

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Sascha Engel
Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 7:13:50 am

HI Everybody,

I was rendering a video clip, shot on XDCAM, edited and on-lined in FCP (with MAgic Bullet Looks).
The render settings were on High Precision YUV - which cause weird green and yellow semi transparent squares on the Final Render - not on all shot, but on the Night / Darker ones. When I rendered it again in 8-Bit YUV setting it was fine. Why is it not working in High Precision YUV?

Any ideas???

Thanx.


Greetz,
Sascha


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 12:56:35 pm

Hi Sascha,
i guess may be your GPU.
I can not use MBL at 1080 with 10b.
If I want 1080 it must be 8b.
Same happens with the fXplugs.
I get a warning: Your GPU..
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 2:04:21 pm

Hi Rafael,

yes, you are totally right. I remember - I had the same issue with fxPlugs and other third party plug ins.
Might be the case now. I work on a 17inch MacBook Pro 2,5Ghz with 4GB RAM.
Well, I rendered it now in YUV 8-Bit and it looks fine. Anyway the MAster has to go on Beta SP - that is the highest quality they accept at the Israeli MTV anyway - so it won't matter so much.
I see you post quiet a bit - and very helpful stuff - thanx.
Is there a site I can watch things from you?
If you are interested here you can find some of my film and theatre work:
http://www.youtube.comm/taikang


Thanx and have a great Day.

Greetz,
Sascha


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Petteri Evilampi
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 2:43:08 pm

GPU?
That is really interesting theory!
I get those artifacts every now and then I had no idea what was the reason until now. WOW!
But that GPU also sounds REALLY strange to me. Isn´t it all just about mathematics? Do I now have tho think that my GPU gets some mathematics wrong like 1 + 1 = 3 and some other GPU gets it like 1 + 1 = 2 ?!?!?
So in theory, if we give same clips with same efects to different Macs we will get different looks????? It can not be so!

Sorry folks, got a bit theoretical...


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 2:53:34 pm

Well, I am not too smart when it comes to what's under the hood of my car, but I just take a guess, that certain graphic cards are not strong enough for complicate effects in 10-Bit - it has to do with it, cause when I switched back to 8-Bit, everything was fine.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 3:58:05 pm

Hi sascha,

I sow your video "dancing in the border'. Great.
Really powerful look. According to the place :-)
I will watch more of your clips.

The kind of videos I make there are no much to show to friends.
Are mostly educational videos and related with development, education agriculture, etc.
Some time I make little clips for fun:

http://www.vimeo.com/7325300

You can find my mail in my profile.
Cheers,
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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Petteri Evilampi
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 4:40:38 pm

Sascha Engel said: "certain graphic cards are not strong enough for complicate effects in 10-Bit"
Yes, I got that, but this is just mathematic, so one card can only make it faster than an other. Isn´t it like processors, G4 can do exectly same mathematics as Nehalem, only difference is that Nehalem is waaay faster?
Sorry, I am difficult personality...


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 5:48:20 pm

not exactly - i just changed from my G4 and certain things could bot be rendered with HD material due to limits of my Graphics Ccard....and now I can.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 21, 2009 at 11:26:45 am

[Petteri Evilampi] " I got that, but this is just mathematic, so one card can only make it faster than an other. Isn´t it like processors, G4 can do exectly same mathematics as Nehalem, only difference is that Nehalem is waaay faster? Sorry, I am difficult personality..."
Hi Pettery,
The GPUs are like dedicated CPUs: They can only handle a ceratin kinds of operations.
You are right that a CPU, although slower, can do whatever a GPU could do (I had few times this discussion).
The problem is that many developers are forcing the GPU rendering when it should be an option (for weak GPU users).
The first versions of Magic Bullet (no yet Looks) you could choose rendering in CPU or GPU. In MBL, they took the option away.
Rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 19, 2009 at 10:23:23 pm

Wow, AMAZING images. Sony EX-1 - great camera. You shot this footage? Chapeau.
Some of it looks really breathtaking - in what did you do the grading and color corrections?
And with what apps did you work?


Sascha


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 20, 2009 at 11:12:24 am

Hi Sascha,
Thanks for watching the clips.
I'm very bad cameraman, but in this place is almost impossible make bad pictures.
The EX- makes really good image.
I've just bought the nano-Flash and you really see the difference of compressing the picture at 100 or 160 Mbps instead of 36.
I used to work a lot with MB, but I stopped because the problems we have been talking about.
This have pushed me to Color, what is OK because that forced me to learn "classic CC".
But I'll be back to MBL when I'll buy my next Mac.
Many people think of MBL like a not much professional tool because because it comes with many presets
To get a real control of MBL you need the same knowledge of color grading than needed to run Color or a DaVinci.
Cheers,
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 21, 2009 at 9:22:52 am

HI Rafael,

what is a Nano-Flash - just in case, I lose all my Nerd-Credits with that question - I am sorry.
Never heard of that!

Sascha


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 21, 2009 at 9:37:28 am

And one more question: I also got recently into Color and manage it quiet well. But when it comes to the FX Room and the knowledge about the Nodes - that is a whole different Universe. Any idea, where I can find Tutorials about that? I really would like to know more about possibilities, tips and tricks in that Room.

Thanx.


Greetz,

Sascha


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 21, 2009 at 12:27:08 pm

Hi Sascha,
I haven't found any good manual for nodes.
But don't be scare and play with them.
When you get the use you won't want to apply filters in other way.
I have a bit of experience from Shake.
Play with the presets and see how the connexions works
(Is really like a game with endless possibilities to combine elements).
But read this article:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/using_color_fx_node.html

Is very important if you are working with progressive material.
I had googled "Apple Color fx room" and it seems that may be few interesting things.
And if you want to get more in the color FXs, you should get your self the Nattress plugins for Color.
Cheers,
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 21, 2009 at 6:05:04 pm

Thanx, I will try!
By the way - still would like to know what the Nano-Flash is?


Thanx :-)


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 22, 2009 at 12:03:56 pm

Is the revolution Sacha :-)
Every camera produces much better quality than the one that normally get recorded in tape or memory.
Most of modern cameras have an HDSI or HDMI out from were you can pick this high quality (4.2.2 10b Uncompress) picture.
The EX-1 for example compress that signal to 36 Mbps 420.
The Nano allows you to record that signal with much higher data rate at 422. Virtually uncompress.
You can record at 280Mbps. That means almost 6 times the data rate of the most expensive SONY XDCAM cameras (50Mps).
There are people buying the NANO to use with top XDCAM HD camcorders. Those cameras had incredible lenses and uses 2/3" CMOS but the 50Mbps it gets too short.
The Nano paired with an EX-1/3 (1/2" CMOS) is probably the best value you can find today.
If you want to get something just one step better, you must, at least, triple your spending and go to to a SONY XDCAM HD or a PANA AVC-Intra.
Have a look by yourself:
http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_nanoFlash.htm
Rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 22, 2009 at 1:14:40 pm

Thanx for the enlightenment - that sounds Amazing!
Unfortunately with an Israeli salary even that is out of my payment range and I have to stick to my Panasonic DVX100B for now, but for bigger jobs, for which I rent cameras, it is great to know, thanx!

Technology moves at such a speed - you don't dare to buy anything anymore...it might be worth nothing and outdated the next day, but this seems to be quiet some Step on the Moon!!!


Cheers, Sascha


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 23, 2009 at 3:32:57 pm

Hi Sascha,
is a better a chip camera with good ideas than any big camera without ideas.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Sascha Engel
Re: Render Artifact in YUV 10-BIT Apple Pro-Res
on Nov 24, 2009 at 7:21:41 am

yup, i agree. what is this site mentioned on your post? your are based in Laos?
Where are you from originally?


Sascha


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