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FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!

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Erik Lindahl
FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 1:55:46 am

What can I say but WOOOOOT! Working with RED in FCS3 vs FCS2 is like night and day. Finally realtime playback in 25p!

I'm going to have to sort this one out in the studio asap (only testing at home atm now that the 7.01 upgrade came!).

Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Communication
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Don Walker
Re: FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 5:09:00 am

Are we allowed to say WOOT on Facebook? Isn't that one of the 7 words banned by the FCC. If you do it again, I'm going to tell Ron Lindeboom!


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Don Walker
Re: FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 5:10:05 am

Said Facebook meant the Cow... I can't tell jokes very well either.

John 3:16


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Erik Lindahl
Re: FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 9:58:49 am

Haha :)

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Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Alex Elkins
Re: FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 9:58:33 am

Hi Erik,

When you say you now get realtime playback are you talking about the Native FCP re-wrapped Quicktimes? Or proxy files? If so, which resolution?

I work a lot with 25p material from the Red and always transcode to ProRes for the offline, which obviously takes quite some time but is great once it's converted.

Can you give an example of some of your realtime capabilities you have now compared to FCS2. I've not upgraded yet and am in search of more reasons why my boss should shell out the minimal amount for the upgrade. Personally I'm completely sold by it anyway.

Thanks,
Alex Elkins



Salad Daze Films - Freshly Tossed


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Erik Lindahl
Re: FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 10:27:48 am

Playback of RED files in Color is now near realtime. I see 24-25 fps. It jumps here and there but it's very similar to ProRes on the same system amazing.

Playback of proxy RED QuickTime files in FCP now playbacks at full 25 fps and not the odd 12-15 fps as it was before. The "only" point to the 2K (2048x1024) plates but that's more than enough for most post-workflows. I'm using a ProRes 4:4:4:4 timeline for this.

The resolution lowered a little in FCP-playback but still looks awesome.

Playback in QuickTime isn't vastly changed but it also plays back the footage in it's entirety I think.

The above performance improvements might just be related to 25p, I can't say for sure. It was pretty poor compared to the times I'd seen RED on tradeshows before and I thought I was doing something wrong on my system… Yet, I had a long talk to one of the AJA tech's about this and he bluntly said "2K is 24p not 25p, you're using the camera wrong", wrong in the sense they see it as a 24p film-camera replacement. Well I don't know about the rest of the European RED users but I'd presume most work in 25p and not 24p since everything in PAL-country is based on this.

With the above I might consider not transcoding footage to ProRes… might… It depends a bit, RED will most likely be a far more taxing codec to work with on the system and the RED > ProRes > RED > ProRes workflow is pretty efficient.

The above experience is from a 8 Core 2.8 Ghz MacPro with 8GB RAM, Geforce 8800 CPU and a 2-disk internal SATA raid. I'm using Snow Leopard 10.6.1, Final Cut Pro 7.01 and the Final Cut Studio 20.0 RED codec.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Alex Elkins
Re: FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 11:54:29 am

Thanks for the detailed breakdown Erik, that sounds pretty good.

[Erik Lindahl] ""2K is 24p not 25p, you're using the camera wrong", wrong in the sense they see it as a 24p film-camera replacement. Well I don't know about the rest of the European RED users but I'd presume most work in 25p and not 24p since everything in PAL-country is based on this."

Everything I've worked on from the Red has been shot at 25p. This is mostly commercials and music videos though, so it would make sense to stick within PAL specs as they're just for broadcast. With features going to a film print opinions seem to differ as to whether to shoot 24p or 23.98p (or stick with 25p). The problem we have working in PAL countries is that most of the information on the internet tends to be geared towards a US based post workflow. My understanding is that the consensus is to shoot 23.98p in order to easily translate to film and NTSC, and 25p to translate easily to film and PAL.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Alex Elkins



Salad Daze Films - Freshly Tossed


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Erik Lindahl
Re: FCS3 and 25p RED… WOOT!
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:03:43 pm

My thoughts are exactly as yours:

- In PAL stay with 25p what ever your end-output is (i.e. cinema, digital or TVC)
- In NTSC stay with 24p or 23.98p for their "standard" inverse telecine for TVC's if needed

But as you state, everything in the 2K world is geared towards a 24p or 23.98p workflow which to me doesn't makes sense when shooting in a PAL country. Does anyone have a solid answer to why this is? I get shooting film at 24p saves you 1 frame per second i.e you gain 2.5s material per minute with the same amount of film or in the digital world - bandwidth. But this seems to me plain silly when working in a 25 fps / 50 Hz environment…

At least now, with FCS3 / SL, it seems a 2K 25p workflow has become a lot smoother performance wise.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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