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Jeff Jeffares
Reference Movie
on Oct 24, 2009 at 2:10:19 am

Hi Guys!

I used to use FCP Reference Movies all the time to knock out a quick copy of a timeline that I would not have to use again, like a Timecode Burn DVD to show a client. I was not concerned about quality or having to recreate the file in the future and it always worked fast & great.

Lately every time I try to make a ref-movie it wants to take the same time to complete as a self-contained version and I assume the file will be the same size as well. I have the self-contained movie unchecked, but it still wants to take the same amount of time to complete. Am I doing something wrong? Is there still such a thing as a ref-movie? I have checked the archives and it seems folks are still using the ref-movies. Just wonderin'.

Thanks in advance,

Jeff



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Tom Wolsky
Re: Reference Movie
on Oct 24, 2009 at 2:33:56 am

Is the sequence entirely rendered before you initiate the export?


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Jeff Jeffares
Re: Reference Movie
on Oct 24, 2009 at 2:47:09 am

Good to hear from you Tom. I was lucky enough to take a FCP course from you when you came to the Atlanta Cow College a few years back that Walter organized. Learned a lot!

Lately, I am working with P2 cards and shooting in 720p. It is usually a timeline with a long clip or a bunch of clips onto which I have dropped the timecode reader filter. Shouldn't need to be rendered. No red or green lines showing and all are the normal gray. I am working with my laptop, so it could be a render issue. Although it seems to not need a render, even when I ask it to do so.

Thanks for the quick response,

Jeff



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Tom Wolsky
Re: Reference Movie
on Oct 24, 2009 at 3:07:36 am

Look more closely. It is not normal gray. Toggle the filter off and you'll see a subtle difference in the render line. Any filter needs to be rendered for export. It may output to tape in real-time without rendering, but for export the file has to be recompressed. That's what happening in your reference movie. If you set Render All to include Full, then render the sequence, then export your reference movie you'll get the speed and file size you're expecting.

I'm glad you benefited from the class, but it wasn't I who taught it.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Jeff Jeffares
Re: Reference Movie
on Oct 24, 2009 at 3:47:40 am

I now see what you are talking about. Seems like they could make that color a little more obvious.

I was under the mistaken conclusion that real time & no render meant the same thing and that bold-lettered filters meant you didn't have to render. I now understand that it is speaking of timeline playback.

I guess that course wasn't as good as I thought. <;-) (Dunce hat)

I apologize. I was confusing you with the Tom from Colorado. But I still thank you for your response and the training!

All the best,

Jeff



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Jeff Jeffares
Re: Reference Movie
on Oct 26, 2009 at 3:59:46 pm

Tom,

One final question about Reference Movies. Are they any different in quality than the Self-Contained movie other than the fact that they cannot stand alone?

Thanks,

Jeff



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Tom Wolsky
Re: Reference Movie
on Oct 26, 2009 at 4:04:06 pm

They're identical. The only thing to be aware of is that the reference movie is essentially fragile. Any change to any of the files, any render file that gets dumped because the sequence has changed, and the file is unplayable and not recoverable.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Jeff Jeffares
Re: Reference Movie
on Oct 26, 2009 at 4:14:57 pm

Thanks Tom,

I only plan to use them for quick approvals from the client and would never use them for any final work.

I appreciate all of your help,

Jeff



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Allynn Wilkinson
Re: Reference Movie
on Nov 25, 2009 at 4:57:42 pm

Thank You!

I was wondering why my QT Ref movies weren't working right.

But here's a question... why does it output a self-contained movie? I could see it throwing an error or taking forever to render the sequence and then outputting a ref movie. But what's the logic behind outputting the whole thing? And is this a new "feature" in FCP 6? I don't seem to remember this happening in FCP 5 (though, to be fair, I never worked much with ref movies then)

Just curious
Allynn


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Reference Movie
on Nov 25, 2009 at 5:28:38 pm

Please confirm that you are exporting to current settings and that you have set Sequences>Render All to Full and that you have render everything in the sequence prior to exporting.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Allynn Wilkinson
Re: Reference Movie
on Dec 1, 2009 at 2:55:15 pm

Hi Tom.

No... my problem was the same as Jeff's - Render --> Full wasn't checked.

I'm just curious as to why it makes a self-contained movie instead of (a) telling me I need to render or (b) rendering everything and *then* making a ref movie (like I asked it too!)

I read somewhere else that, when it does this, it holds the render files *only* in the full sized QuickTime file so if you want to do anything else with the sequence you have to render it all again.

We typically make hour long pieces (lectures mostly) and the only thing that has to render is the little "bug" we put in the lower right. Still... that can take more than an hour. It would be nice if there was some sort of workflow that would render everything and then automatically send it out as a QT ref.

Allynn



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Rafael Amador
Re: Reference Movie
on Dec 1, 2009 at 3:15:41 pm

Hi Allyn,
You sure FC exported a Self-contained Movie having unchecked "Make Movie Self-Contained?
Really is the first time I heard so.
When you export Reference movies, the sequence is rendered, and the media of that clip are the FC rendered files.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Allynn Wilkinson
Re: Reference Movie
on Dec 1, 2009 at 6:47:23 pm

Oh, I'm sure.

I wasn't so I tried it about a half a dozen times!

Tom is right on the money. If Render --> Full is not checked (and it seems to be not checked by default) and anything has to render over the whole video (say, an itty bitty bug) then - BAM! You get a full sized, flattened video.

Try this and you'll see... Take a five minute piece and put a little bug in the corner. Be sure Render --> Full is unchecked. Export to a non-self-contained QT Ref and see what you get. It should be a self-contained file as big as if you flattened it.

Now I never noticed this behavior before either. So either this is a new "feature" (post FCP 5). Or I never had anything that had to be rendered out "full" before. The second choice is quite likely since we just started adding a bug to our videos this year. I don't think a simple fade up/down would be a problem.

Allynn


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