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1080 24p Panasonic HDX900

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Neal Broffman
1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 14, 2009 at 7:19:39 pm

Little bit of confusion here that I am hoping somebody will help me clear up. I was asked by a client to shoot some material on a Panasonic HDX900 set to 1080 24p 1/48th. Everything seemed fine (footage looks great was the follow-up I received a week later) but the client has now come back and said the material was shot in 1080 59.94 not 24p and that they had to spend significant time dubbing to "correct" the problem.

Now, I know I shot it with the proper settings as the camera was a rental and setup by a reputable house here in Atlanta from the spec sheet they sent and I know it was in 24p as it stared me in the face every time I looked through the viewfinder and that I was shooting at 1/48 (half). What to explain to them and what to ask of them is the purpose of this post. I shoot on Sony XDCAM HD and am not fluent in the technical specs of the Panasonic cameras, how they acquire and how to capture etc. Thank you very much for your time.

Neal Broffman
One Production Place, Atlanta, GA
"Voices of Freedom", Special Jury winner for Fall 2008 CINE Awards produced for the High Museum of Art in Atlanta as part of a major exhibition of vintage Civil Rights Movement photographs, "Road To Freedom". Currently on display at The Field Musuem in Chicago followed by The Skirball Cultural Center in LA in the fall and The Bronx Museum, spring 2010.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:00:44 pm

[Neal Broffman] "...I was asked by a client to shoot some material on a Panasonic HDX900 set to 1080 24p 1/48th... the client has now come back and said the material was shot in 1080 59.94 not 24p and that they had to spend significant time dubbing to "correct" the problem..."

If it was 1080 footage, it was INTERLACED. Only the most expensive cameras on the planet can shoot true 1080p, and aPanasonic HDX900 doesn't qualify as such. Thus, your camera recorded 29.97 interlaced-frame video, and to get to an actual 23.976 frame rate, you have to remove the 3:2 pulldown.

Either the client screwed up by not knowing this little factoid... or you did.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Neal Broffman
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:15:34 pm

typo...it was 1080i.

Neal Broffman
One Production Place, Atlanta, GA
"Voices of Freedom", Special Jury winner for Fall 2008 CINE Awards produced for the High Museum of Art in Atlanta as part of a major exhibition of vintage Civil Rights Movement photographs, "Road To Freedom". Currently on display at The Field Musuem in Chicago followed by The Skirball Cultural Center in LA in the fall and The Bronx Museum, spring 2010.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 15, 2009 at 12:09:08 am

[Dave LaRonde] "If it was 1080 footage, it was INTERLACED. Only the most expensive cameras on the planet can shoot true 1080p, and aPanasonic HDX900 doesn't qualify as such"
That might have been true a few years ago, but it's not that way anymore. Sony's EX cameras, for example, shoot 1080p24 and fall into the Prosumer price range.


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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John Fishback
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:02:35 pm

The timebase is 59.94. If your setting is 24P the footage would have been recorded with pulldown added (24 over 60i). I believe that camera also shoots 24PA which allows FCP to easily remove the pulldown resulting in 23.976 clips. All these files would show up as 59.94 even though they are 24P or PA.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.5 QT7.5.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 2 (FCP 6.0.5, Comp 3.0.5, DVDSP 4.2.1, Color 1.0.3)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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Neal Broffman
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:18:08 pm

Thanks John...
And the way for them to determine that it was recorded with pulldown added? Aside from putting the tape in the 900 camera and playing it.


Neal Broffman
One Production Place, Atlanta, GA
"Voices of Freedom", Special Jury winner for Fall 2008 CINE Awards produced for the High Museum of Art in Atlanta as part of a major exhibition of vintage Civil Rights Movement photographs, "Road To Freedom". Currently on display at The Field Musuem in Chicago followed by The Skirball Cultural Center in LA in the fall and The Bronx Museum, spring 2010.


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John Fishback
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:26:54 pm

Assuming it was captured properly they should be able to step through the timeline frame-by-frame and see the extra frames added by the pulldown process. You might also try using MediaInfo

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.5 QT7.5.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 2 (FCP 6.0.5, Comp 3.0.5, DVDSP 4.2.1, Color 1.0.3)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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Neal Broffman
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:00:32 pm

assuming it was not captured properly...

Neal Broffman
One Production Place, Atlanta, GA
"Voices of Freedom", Special Jury winner for Fall 2008 CINE Awards produced for the High Museum of Art in Atlanta as part of a major exhibition of vintage Civil Rights Movement photographs, "Road To Freedom". Currently on display at The Field Musuem in Chicago followed by The Skirball Cultural Center in LA in the fall and The Bronx Museum, spring 2010.


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Erik Peterson
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 15, 2009 at 3:59:25 am

Check out page 31 recording format from the ops manual.

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/manuals/OM_AJ-HDX900.pdf

If you were set to 1080 then it was 24p over 60i( with 2-3 pulldown).
Some decks will not do the 2-3 pulldown on the fly from a 1080i recording via the HD-SDI output. Possibly they had to remove the 2-3 cadence and output the processed 24p Footage to a new master tape.

For future note I have had good results with the 720p59.94 24p recording playback with the AJ-HD1800 vtr output to 1080p 23.976 via HD-SDI workflow.


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Neal Broffman
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Oct 15, 2009 at 1:37:04 pm

Thanks, Erik...appreciate the info.

Neal Broffman
One Production Place, Atlanta, GA
"Voices of Freedom", Special Jury winner for Fall 2008 CINE Awards produced for the High Museum of Art in Atlanta as part of a major exhibition of vintage Civil Rights Movement photographs, "Road To Freedom". Currently on display at The Field Musuem in Chicago followed by The Skirball Cultural Center in LA in the fall and The Bronx Museum, spring 2010.


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john mahoney
Re: 1080 24p Panasonic HDX900
on Dec 8, 2009 at 2:50:45 am

If I am not mistaken, all tape based cameras record interlaced. Usually with pull down added. The chip is native progressive, even the low priced hvx200 is a native 1080p chip. but tape playback requires interlacing. the p"A" feature lets Final Cut easily remove pull down on import into a progressive time line


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