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Joe Huggins
A frame problems
on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:24:47 pm

Cow-boys:

I've got an A frame problem. Digitizing a DigiBeta 29.97 tape into a FCP 23.98 SD timeline (to cut in film 24p mode). The A frames are randomly off and on. Some files (takes) fall on the Aframe others do not. About half on, half off, but randomly so.

Cutting in a 23.98 timeline from a SD tape is standard for features, so why can't I get a clean A frame list/ timeline? We've done more HD dailes lately or just provided a tape for others to input so have not seen this problem before. What are we doing wrong?


Thanks, Film Joe


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:19:43 pm

DO you have a database from the Lab? YOu can use Cinema Tools to capture 24p.

Jeremy


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Doug Beal
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 7, 2009 at 2:14:14 pm

If the dbeta is an edited piece the cadence will be random. It's possible if the person cutting the piece did not use a monitor capable of displaying interfield motion that cuts were made on pulldown frames.
If it's a straight xfer from film, do as Jeremy suggests and get the ale or flex files from the telecine session

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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gary adcock
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 7, 2009 at 2:33:50 pm

[Joe Huggins] " Digitizing a DigiBeta 29.97 tape into a FCP 23.98 SD timeline (to cut in film 24p mode). The A frames are randomly off and on. Some files (takes) fall on the Aframe others do not. About half on, half off, but randomly so."

read all the other answers, but ask first where did this tape come from.

If it is telecine MASTER tape the A frame will always be at the first frame of each clip. if you trim some of that time off- then you have bypassed the A frames yourself. This would be confirmed by the afore mentioned ALE/ Flex log.

If it is a DUB and not a Clone that tapes timing could be off.

how are you digitizing the tape? some hardware sees this issue better than others.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Joe Huggins
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:38:23 pm

Thanks for the feedback. Here is some more detail.

We are the lab and did the telecine also.
Tape is a Telecine Master @29.97 and we are digitizing from the Telecine ALE file.

Tape is a single edit pulled at 1:00:00:00 till the end of the film roll (so no cadence change) all in points are on A-frames (and confirmed against the tape) on either a :00, :05, :10, :15, :20, or :25.

About half the takes come in on the A-frame inpoint ... about half of them come in on the B-Frame video but show the A-Frame timecode ....
Any take that comes in as a B-Frame that is offlined and re-captured is about 50% likely to come in as a perfect A the next time. (Again, the tape has been double checked and is fine ... and the tape will come into an Avid system with zero problems.)

Capture hardware is a Kona 3 card .... Compression is ProRes(HQ) ...
system is a MacPro Quad-core. Problem is the same when digitizing to a fiber raid array or a FW800 LACiE so drive specs do not seem to be any relation to the issue.

Any new thoughts based on this input? Seems odd that the older SD dailies process has a 'hit or miss' error on A frames. We must have a setting wrong?


Thanks, Film Joe


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:03:55 pm

Sounds like you need to calibrate your deck to the Kona. The FCP manual goes over this in pretty decent detail. Are you genlocked?

Jeremy


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Joe Huggins
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:43:18 pm

Thanks. We do calibrate to the Device Control Menu. Since it is on the Aframe on some takes and off the A frame on others, there is no consistent offset to correct this. If the takes were consistently off, that menu setting might help.

So I think the issue is still open. Any other thoughts from anyone?

Joe

Thanks, Film Joe


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Doug Beal
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:33:42 am

If the same tape from the same machine will go into an avid on A frames and the footage is not matching the TC on the FCP system it's time to make sure the device control is not corrupted, that you are getting ref to your kona (easy to spot on the Kona control panel)
have you tried creating a new device control. copy sony VTR A name it VTR C or some such and verify VITC and LTC are selected, use deck search enabled and then your offset settings.
Also verify that TCR is in auto on the dbeta machine.
If that and the usual pref trash etc don't fix it it's time to call AJA.


Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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Joe Huggins
Re: A frame problems
on Oct 9, 2009 at 7:25:33 pm

Thanks, we tried that with no luck. Adding a house ref signal made no difference. If we use the AJA VTR Xchange program the capture is perfect every time with a -1 Capture Offset. (by 'perfect' I mean starts at the correct frame of video with the correct timecode stamp ... the out point is 'sloppy' and goes past my programed 'out' timecode ... but the actual part of the clip that I wanted is correctly captured at 23.98.) So the Cinema Tools database is corrupt using AJA program since the head is right, but the tail bad.

That points to the Kona being OK, and FCP not being accurate. This is hard to believe that no one has had problems like this in FCP and a 23.98 capture. This is basic film 101 concerns right, back before we had HD dailies with no 2/3 pulldown at all.

Where are we going wrong? BTW AJA is moving with no phone support until Tuesday. - bad time to start a feature.

Thanks for any extra ideas.


Thanks, Film Joe


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