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6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?

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James Nolan
6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 23, 2009 at 7:56:14 pm

Looking to spend around 6k on a new camera.

The Sony PMW-EX1 XDCAM EX SxS Pro HD Camcorder
vs.
Panasonic AG-HVX200A P2HD Camcorder

Anyone like one better?

Thanks for your time.


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Shane Ross
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 23, 2009 at 8:29:31 pm

HPX-170. Lighter, better in low light (well, 200A and 170 are identical in low light, pardon).

The EX series is a ergonomic nightmare...very difficult hand held. But it has a great lens and produces sharp imagery. But XDCAM is a GOP format that has 4:2:0 chroma sampling. Still, makes great images. And the SxS cards are cheap, and there are adapters to make it work with Compact Flash cards. The GOP format makes it a bear to edit, but render out as Prores or convert to ProRes and you are much better off.

The HVX (the 170 is better, IMHO...no tape drive) has a lesser lens, but is lighter, MUCH easier to handle hand-held. Has 4:2:2 chroma sampling...and full I-Frame format. VERY easy to edit with. P2 cards can be expensive, but the E-Series are cheaper.

Offloading the cards can be tricky for both as MacBook Pros don't have a slot for P2, and the new ones don't have one for SxS. And readers for both might get expensive, although SxS or CF will be cheaper.

I like the HVX/HPX and the P2 workflow. But that is me.




Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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walter biscardi
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 24, 2009 at 12:45:10 am

I have one word for the EX1 and EX3 cameras. Ugh. Can't stand them or the workflow. Inferior imagery to what we get from the panny cameras. I shot a pilot using the EX1 and EX3 because the D.P. was really psyched for those cameras. Ugh. I won't pay to use them ever again.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post

Biscardi Creative Media

Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.

Read my Blog!

Twitter!


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony? - 8k system
on Sep 24, 2009 at 6:44:17 am

Whatever the camera, consider the AJA KiPro which takes an HD-SDI feed form a camera and records as QT ProRes. So none of the compression issues and workflow problems associated with long GOP.
With a KiPro, the 6k camera becomes an 8k system.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Peter Wiggins
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony? - 8k system
on Sep 24, 2009 at 10:44:52 am

Watch out for an announcement from Canon on the 29th.

Might be a brand new camera or a colour photocopier.

Peter



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Rafael Amador
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony? - 8k system
on Sep 25, 2009 at 2:42:13 pm

[Neil Sadwelkar] "Whatever the camera, consider the AJA KiPro which takes an HD-SDI feed form a camera and records as QT ProRes. So none of the compression issues and workflow problems associated with long GOP. "
Neil,
You must try the EX-1 with the NANO-Flash.
100Mbps MPEG-2 is a different world.
And the NANO fits in your pocket.
Best,
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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walter biscardi
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony? - 8k system
on Sep 25, 2009 at 2:48:49 pm

[Neil Sadwelkar] "Whatever the camera, consider the AJA KiPro which takes an HD-SDI feed form a camera and records as QT ProRes"

that would be a good idea. The picture from the Sony EX 1 / EX 3 is beautiful until it's recorded to the XDCAM format. We did a shoot once with the HD-SDI from the EX cameras feeding my Panasonic 1400 decks and it resulted in really pretty picture.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post

Biscardi Creative Media

Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.

Read my Blog!

Twitter!


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Craig Sommerer
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 24, 2009 at 3:08:31 pm

Cameras are just tools and it's dependent upon the craftsman to get the most out of them.

True, the EX cameras are ergonomic nightmares and XDCam is a full raster, high data rate form of HDV but the images can be stunning. I had a job, 13 episodes on Animal Planet shot on 3 EX3 cams with b-roll from an EX1. I did the video engineering for this show and quite honestly, I was very pleased with the images. Helps to have a very professional crew on set as well.



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Steve Connor
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 24, 2009 at 9:47:35 pm

Thought it had been a few days since Walter mentioned his dislike of the Sony EX cameras! I'm not a fan of Panasonic cameras and the DVCPro codec, but I don't feel the need to shout it every time someone asks a question about it

Having said that I have to disagree 100% I'm afraid, image quality and resolution from the EX cameras is superior to the HVX cameras in my opinion. The workflow is not an issue for the majority of users and the media is considerably cheaper than P2. The LCD screen is much easier to focus with and the lens is better.

But that's just my opinion

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Jeremy Doyle
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 1:59:09 am

Chalk up another vote for the EX series. Bigger chips offering sharper, more vibrant pictures and low light superiority. Better viewfinder. Cheaper media, especially when using adaptors for SD cards.

Shane is right though, an ergonomic nightmare is almost an understatement. And if you don't have a good DP the GOP format is not very forgiving. Although I think that DVCPRO HD falls apart pretty fast as well once you start pushing it around.

I've never tried it, but I think the EX1 fitted with the AJA KiPro would be a real winner.



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cowcowcowcowcow
gary adcock
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 2:51:46 pm

[Jeremy Doyle] "I've never tried it, but I think the EX1 fitted with the AJA KiPro would be a real winner. "

I have used the 2 together and it rocks, I archive the card media (for the metadata) and use the ProRes as my master.

I have not said anything in this thread because I like both cameras for completely different reasons.
I do not see a great deal of ergonomic difference between the HVX and the EX other than the smaller form factor on the HVX allows slightly better balance.

I do find the quality of the imager on the EX to be better, and I like the fact that the Newer Generation EX allows for color and gamma matrix adjustment that the HVX does not.

That being said the first thing I did was turn the detail off in my EX ( same I do in all Sony prosumer cameras) - I have matched EX1's to Varicams for the NBA and F23's for feature shoots and that is not something I cannot do at all on the HVX 200. ( with the 200 I have always tuned the other camera to match it, a far, far simpler task)



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:11:24 pm

That's an amazing if brief insight into the differences between two very capable moviemaking tools.

I would agree with Gary's assessment on image quality differences between these two cameras. I've not shot with either, but I've edited lots of stuff from both.

I like to think that with the sheer amount of time we editors spend looking at images in a comfortable and optimum viewing environment - calibrated monitors in correctly lit rooms vs. tiny viewfinders/LCDs in harsh sunlight - we can tell DOPs a thing or two about camera image quality.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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walter biscardi
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:16:42 pm

[Neil Sadwelkar] "we can tell DOPs a thing or two about camera image quality. "

Yep, nothing like sitting in the edit suite with every format under the sun to know right away what's good and what's not so good. I can pretty much look at any image these days and tell you what camera probably shot it.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post

Biscardi Creative Media

Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.

Read my Blog!

Twitter!


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gary adcock
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:41:47 pm

[walter biscardi] " I can pretty much look at any image these days and tell you what camera probably shot it. "

me too.

funny thing is some of the worst footage I have seen lately has been RED, nothing to do with the camera lots to do with operator error.

Tuning cameras is an art that gets lost with prosumer tools, I can't tell you how many times I cringe on set when a DP says "we can fix that in post" when I know how impossible (time consuming) a task that is when taking 60 min before shooting begins saves a 1-2 days of color matching and correction on the other end.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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walter biscardi
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:46:24 pm

[gary adcock] "funny thing is some of the worst footage I have seen lately has been RED, nothing to do with the camera lots to do with operator error. "

Yep. I've seen some HDV footage in here that looks like a high school kid just opened the box and turned on the camera and other HDV footage that we created a stunning documentary with. Same camera in both cases, the Z1U. One was shot with a D.P. that has a lot of experience with cameras and knows how to set them up properly before starting the shoot, the other, well the pictures speak for themselves.

It always comes back to the operator. Some of the older Varicam footage we have here is just terrible compared to later footage after the DPs started figuring the thing out. Turning on a high quality camera does not make someone a high quality DP.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post

Biscardi Creative Media

Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.

Read my Blog!

Twitter!


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gary adcock
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:46:32 pm

[Neil Sadwelkar] "That's an amazing if brief insight into the differences between two very capable moviemaking tools. "

thanks my friend,

Neil,

Let me say what a joy to meet you in person at IBC, I'm glad that Ron and John from MaxxDigital were kind enough to relay my message so that we could meet in person.

I make it a point to seek out other Bovine luminaries when ever the opportunity arrises, especially when it is someone that truly embodies the universal nature of what all of us do here on the COW every day.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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walter biscardi
Re: 6k camera - - Panasonic or Sony?
on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:50:53 pm

[gary adcock] "I make it a point to seek out other Bovine luminaries when ever the opportunity arrises, especially when it is someone that truly embodies the universal nature of what all of us do here on the COW every day.
"


Boy I remember Neil all the way back to the WWUG days......... good man and glad he's here on the Cow with us now.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post

Biscardi Creative Media

Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.

Read my Blog!

Twitter!


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