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can spotlight be made to see the Library?

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Mark Palmos
can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 30, 2008 at 9:52:48 am

Hello all
I'm using a utility to clean up my laptop to free up some space.
The utility tells me there is plenty of stuff in the Library (livefonts, audio stuff etc) which I never use, and I would like to delete them.
I know I can browse there, but it would be much faster to just use spotlight to find it and delete it.

Spotlight / OSx seems to disallow users to search the library. Is there a way to overcome this annoying inconvenience permenantly, and have the whole computer searchable?

There have been other occasions when Im looking for a system file to delete it, say a preference file or something, and osx disallows the spotlight search - which is really unnecessary given you can delete it if you want anyway!

Thanks guys,
Mark.


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Zane Barker
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 30, 2008 at 4:12:20 pm

Spotlight cannot be manse she show you what is in the library. Its like that for a reason. If you delete the wrong thing in there it causes problems.

What utility are you using? If it is any good it will let you delete from within the utility itself, it may have an option to show in finder, or at the very least tell you where it it located so you can go there manually.

There are no "technical solutions" to your "artistic problems".
Don't let technology get in the way of your creativity!



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Mark Palmos
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 30, 2008 at 5:13:58 pm

Hi there
I can use Pathfinder to search the whole computer, including the Library, but I would like to be able to do it in spotlight because it is immediate and right there, which is good, but its extremely annoying how apple treats users like dummies. If I want to delete something I should be able. The fact that apple puts audio samples and motion and DVD studio pro templates in the library folder is incredibly stupid. If they are trying to keep users from deleting critical files they should keep these files discretely and separate from throwaway stuff like audio samples.

if there is a hack to force osx to allow spotlight to actually search the entire computer, i would like to know what it is.

Thanks guys
Mark.


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Greg Serafin
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 31, 2008 at 3:48:23 am

Hear hear!
MOre and more Apple seems to assume that we are illiterate morons.
There are gigs upon gigs of the HD chewed up by drivers, sounds, themes and language packs in apps.

You can set spotlight to search for all files.
At the moment spotlight is looking into the Libraries, but can't display hidden files.
To enable spotlight to the hidden file you need to manually edit a couple of .plist files.
You may have to search the net to find the exact changes.

The easier way is to use the Finder's Find option, and set it to display hidden files.
Go Command+F, under Kind, go to "other" and add "System files" to the list and set them to "show" - easy and safe, but not spotlight.

Otherwise get "disk inventory X" and see (and delete) the unwanted chunks of data.




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Zane Barker
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 31, 2008 at 5:16:24 am

[Mark Palmos] "its extremely annoying how apple treats users like dummies. If I want to delete something I should be able."

Think of it this way it is easier for Apple to prevent people screwing things up then it is for them to fix the screw ups people make.

You are the first person I have heard complain about it. Apple is NOT treating people like dummies, they are maintaining the integrity of there OS.

[Mark Palmos] "The fact that apple puts audio samples and motion and DVD studio pro templates in the library folder is incredibly stupid"

Its actually the best place for them I believe, where else would they belong. If they were placed elsewhere they would be much more likely to get deleted and messed up by people who don't know what they are doing. And if your average user opened iMovie or iDVD and all of a sudden all the templates were gone they would not like it at all.

[Mark Palmos] "If I want to delete something I should be able."

And you can, just be prepared to face problems caused by possibly deleting the wrong things.


While you may be able to distinguish between what is needed and what is not, the vast majority of computer users is not. The way Apple has set up there OS is the reason Apple Computers are gaining big time in the computer market. The OS is set up to be easy to use, and vary stable. That ease of use and stability has everything to do with the way Apple set things up.

There are no "technical solutions" to your "artistic problems".
Don't let technology get in the way of your creativity!



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Mark Palmos
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 31, 2008 at 8:37:00 am

Hi Zane, thanks for the response again there mate!

Media clips are not system clips! OSX should put Media clips separate from mission critical files... that is pretty certain.

OSX should be smart enough to say "this is a system file, are you sure you want to delete it"? Or as Windows 95 was able to do was to say "you cannot delete this file, it is in use" Surely OSX has reached Win 95 in this regard? (i'm kidding)

Spotlight prevents people from searching Media files which Apple puts in the library... What about allt he preferenxe files which one has to manually delete because OSX is easily as messy as Windows in leaving bits and pieces lying around in a wide variety of places. Surely an Administrator has the intelligence to decide what he/she is doing?

Just 8 months ago when i had just got FCP and had my first problems with disk permissions. I went to disk administrator and saw an array of grey permission buttons. There was no indication of which was was selected or not, so I clicked them all so they were the same colour. OSX had no problem at all allowing me to do this, all i had to do was click on the little lock (like when chaning bluetooth settings etc) OSX allowed me to completely remove MY access to MY computer. I had to get a tech support person in to fix this massive problem... If apple are really being so careful, they should at least be consistent.

I have filled in an OSX feedback form for this issue, hopefully one day...

thanks mate
Mark.


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Zane Barker
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 31, 2008 at 3:45:57 pm

Mark your attitude about this seems to me as if Apple should write there OS with your concerns as there biggest priority. Apple focuses on the "average" computer user. You are NOT the average computer user.

[Mark Palmos] "Media clips are not system clips! OSX should put Media clips separate from mission critical files... that is pretty certain. "

The average computer user does not clearly make that distinction. When something goes wrong on the computer the average computer user they blame the computer as a WHOLE.

[Mark Palmos] "Spotlight prevents people from searching Media files which Apple puts in the library... "

Again think in terms of the "average user" if they were to go and do a spotlight such and all these thousands of things showed up they would get mighty confused.

[Mark Palmos] "If apple are really being so careful, they should at least be consistent. "

Building an OS is NOT an easy thing, what you are using now took YEARS to get to. You cannot expect Apple to suddenly make an OS that will fit just YOU. I do not want to offend you by saying that, but it really seems as if you do not understand that Apple must make the best product possible to the "average" computer user. Like I said before you are NOT an average computer user.

There are no "technical solutions" to your "artistic problems".
Don't let technology get in the way of your creativity!



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Mark Palmos
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on May 31, 2008 at 6:50:32 pm

Aah
so OSX is designed for the average user, which means it must be kinda dumbed down, which is rather disappointing since there are some great features about it...

In discussions its not useful to impose your limitations on what is possible. What you missed in donig that is the fact that it is possible for an OS to be logical, powerful and secure. Defending for the sake of defense is pointless. It would not take much for searching the whole computer to be a user setting, one which requires admin rights as well as unlocking a box which warns about deleting system files and advises "average" users against it... this way apple could allow not-so-average users to do what they choose.

catcha later
Mark.


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Greg Serafin
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on Jun 1, 2008 at 4:02:11 am

Just recently I had a chance to talk to a guy doing software development for ****.
He said that the design philosophy is aimed at a "little girl" level of understanding of the OS.
"asking a user is a cop out" was the attitude.
Make the OS idiot-proof by restricting access to even desktop pictures.
The more "secretive" and protected the OS is the less service calls and "problems", and the advanced users will find their way to hack it anyway.
That's just a random bunch of semi-quotes.
I think I understand their approach, but for me it feels a bit insulting.


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Chuck Reti
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on Jun 1, 2008 at 5:17:49 am

If you already know what files you want to delete, you can simply open the Library (or any) folder and delete them, It's OK, you're allowed. I don't get how Spotlight will aid you here, since the unnamed utility you speak of already lists what "stuff" you have, and if this software is any good, it should be telling you where these items are, so you can just open their folders and delete them. Since you know you want to kill- LiveFonts, etc, just Trash them, what's the problem?
I just opened my Library folder, and in the folder's search window, typed in name of a deeply nested FCP item, which it located for me in seconds. I also typed the same item name directly into Spotlight search, and again, within seconds, there it was. So, how does Spotlight not allow you to search the Library folder?
What Spotlight won't do, as already mentioned, is search for "invisible" and System-related files, which despite your protestations, are invisible because mucking with them would have an adverse or fatal effect on performance of the computer or applications.
Anyone who wants to find an "invisible" file can easily do so, just not via Spotlight. No big deal. Try freeware EasyFind, among others, or learn to use the Go to Folder command, or the Terminal.
Way too much whining going on here :-)


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Mark Palmos
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on Jun 1, 2008 at 7:05:29 am

I was trying to do two simple things

1/ remove some settings which the apple site had recommended i do to fix a problem compressor had. It would have been MUCH faster pressing space-cmd and typing in the name to access it immediately in spotilight, but apple disallowed that, I had to tediously browse to the place.

2/ spotlight find the media folder which is (strangely) kept in the Library folder somewhere so I could delete it to make space on the HD.

simple things easily done on a PC, but not on a mac.

What is irritating is the way some people have a kind of religeous defense of a bit of hardware. So much so that it blocks their ears and prevents empathy. What I was saying was not wining for the sake of it, I would like apple to improve their software and thought perhaps experienced users here could tell me how to flip off the dont-look-here switch.

Mark.


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Zane Barker
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on Jun 1, 2008 at 7:29:01 am

[Mark Palmos] "simple things easily done on a PC"

Last time I tried to do a search on a WinXP machine it took so so long I that I went and found the file manually.


[Mark Palmos] "What I was saying was not wining for the sake of it"

No offense but it sure did sound like it.

[Mark Palmos] "What is irritating is the way some people have a kind of religeous defense of a bit of hardware. So much so that it blocks their ears and prevents empathy."

I was actually defending software. And I am sorry but how can one be empathetic to something I don't really think is a big deal.

You feel that something could be more convenient to you, I know it can be unpleasant.

I like to think of it like this. Car companies put a hood on the car to help keep me from messing the engine up (because you know I would if I tried) at the same time Apple has put things in places they feel appropriate so that most people will not mess with them. Now nether the car company or Apple are going to prevent you from getting in there if you really want to. They just make you pop the hood so to speak to get there.

There are no "technical solutions" to your "artistic problems".
Don't let technology get in the way of your creativity!



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Mark Palmos
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on Jun 1, 2008 at 2:52:54 pm

car's and hood's hmmm. Thats a pretty good analogy. If you feel confident, you can open the hood and do what you want. Thats what I would like. Apple lock the hood and I really hate that... but not entirely surprising from a company who still believe one mouse button is enough for their target market...

what about my permissions story. I mean in my ignorance I completely buggered my computer and had to get an expert in to allow me access to any part of my computer... all from pressing a few buttons easily found in the settings, with NO warnings at all...

todays gripe is im on the net at home on my macbook pro but cant see my home network at all (windows computers)

the problem as i see it is osx is a bastardisation of a hugely powerful unix platform and the old EZ is good and users must be protected from themselves mentality. But it has not been smoothed out and inconsistencies like this show up. Im sure it will be smoothed out in time to come.

anyhoo, tx for the conversation... atb
mark


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Vipul Vaid
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on Jun 16, 2008 at 10:11:59 pm

You can do exactly what you wanted to under Leopard.

I was wondering about the same thing. I needed to search and access the ~/Library/Scripts folder to fine tune and create triggers for some iTunes Dougscripts. A Google search brought me here and then on to <http://db.tidbits.com/article/9283> "Spotlight Strikes Back: In Leopard, It Works Great" by Matt Neuburg. He lucidly describes how Leopard search can be fine tuned to search spotlight comments, hidden files and system folders amongst other search criteria.

Fire up the Search Finder with Option-Command-Space. Search 'This Mac' 'Contents' and click the '+' sign on the right of that bar. The default Search attribute is 'Kind' so to change it scroll down to 'other...', where you can select files by numerous user selected Search Attributes - including visibility, system files, hidden extensions, spotlight commented files, alternate display names etc. Select the ones you will be using regularly and then tick the search criteria you want as your selection criteria instead of searching by 'Kind'. If you require more fine tuning click the '+' sign again and select another set of rules. If you option-click the '+' you are given options to search by 'any' or 'all' the criteria you specify.

You can save the search criteria in your Saved Searches. HTH.

Have fun!!!

~~ViShVa~~



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mark palmos
Re: can spotlight be made to see the Library?
on Jun 17, 2008 at 9:27:13 am

[Vipul Vaid] "The default Search attribute is 'Kind' so to change it scroll down to 'other...',"

Hi there Vipul,
Thanks, that is very useful.
It's quite clunky, but does the trick.
You have to do this every time, so you cannot set it as a preference and have it search system files every time. It also defaults to "dont include" which must be changed to include - but its better than nothing for sure.
Cheers,
Mark.


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