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solie swan
Widget to browse forums
on May 11, 2005 at 2:16:21 pm

Just saw a widget to browse a German based FCP discussion board and wondered if anyone could write one to browse the cow?


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Burt Hazard
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 13, 2005 at 3:54:19 pm

Good idea, they could even design it to look like an animated cow that would "graze" through the entries...and late at night, in between all the UNIX housekeeping chores, the FCP yak could enter into philosophical discussions with it.


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solie swan
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 14, 2005 at 1:28:56 am

:)


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Mitch Ives
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 14, 2005 at 2:57:04 pm

Given that fixing the broken "Q" function in Safari seems to be a low priority, I wouldn't count on it. I've learned in conversations with them that the COW is (surprisingly) a PC oriented operation...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Kathlyn Lindeboom
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 14, 2005 at 4:57:50 pm

[Mitch Ives] " I've learned in conversations with them that the COW is (surprisingly) a PC oriented operation..."

Unfortunately, it seems the coders prefer pc. Ron and I are both on macs.



Kathlyn Lindeboom
The Mistress of Mmmooooo!


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Ron Lindeboom
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 14, 2005 at 5:20:18 pm



[Mitch Ives] "I've learned in conversations with them that the COW is (surprisingly) a PC oriented operation..."


Mitch:

There are many things wrong with this statement:
  • First, I can't recall having conversations with you in which we said that we are PC oriented. .
  • Second, I doubt highly that we show a "PC slant" as both Kathlyn and I use Macs -- Kathlyn has a PC but my PC was given to our coder. I just didn't use it much anymore.
  • Third, the reason that there are a few features that PC users have here that are not available to Mac users is due to the fact that MicroSoft's JScript supports functions that, until now, simply were not available in JavaScript.
  • Fourth, the reason that the "Q" function is broken in Safari is due to Apple changing things again and we are replacing this interface and have little interest in putting more work into it.
But please feel free to think whatsoever you wish, I've come to expect that from human nature -- but at least it's consistent.

Best regards,

Ron LIndeboom


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Mitch Ives
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 16, 2005 at 4:53:12 pm

[Ron Lindeboom] "There are many things wrong with this statement:
* First, I can't recall having conversations with you in which we said that we are PC oriented. ."


You may not remember Ron, but that wouldn't alter the facts. We've had conversations at DV Expo and NAB. I learned that other than you and Kathlyn everyone else is using a PC. The post right before yours from Kathlyn would seem to support that point. At this year's NAB I asked the tech in your booth (before you arrived) about the "Q" function being broken again and his response was "I don't know, I only use PC's".

I don't see my post as something to be defensive about, it just explains the ongoing "Q" issue, and suggests that development of a Mac Widget would probably be a low priority.


[Ron Lindeboom] " * Second, I doubt highly that we show a "PC slant" as both Kathlyn and I use Macs -- Kathlyn has a PC but my PC was given to our coder. I just didn't use it much anymore."

I don't believe I used the word "slant". That would indicate a bias or preference towards PC's. I never got that from you or Kathylyn. Still, the fact remains that the tech side of things is PC based and tends to not always be aware of things like the broken "Q" function or strange screen redraws on the Mac.


[Ron Lindeboom] "
* Third, the reason that there are a few features that PC users have here that are not available to Mac users is due to the fact that MicroSoft's JScript supports functions that, until now, simply were not available in JavaScript.

* Fourth, the reason that the "Q" function is broken in Safari is due to Apple changing things again and we are replacing this interface and have little interest in putting more work into it."


This is an issue all owners of web sites face. I own another business where the site is very complex. We face as many issues with IE on the PC as we do with Safari on the Mac. Being in business, I insist that the web site coders have Macs and PCs to test with. Something that doesn't work properly on a PC is no more acceptable than a Safari issue, but then that's just us.

Your explanation for why you won't be fixing the "Q" function makes sense... it might have been good to see a post explaining that?


[Ron Lindeboom] "
But please feel free to think whatsoever you wish, I've come to expect that from human nature -- but at least it's consistent. "


Not sure what that means... I don't think anything other than the fact that a Dashboard Widget probably isn't high on your priority list, which makes perfect sense... it wouldn't be if I were in your shoes either.



Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Curtis Thompson
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 16, 2005 at 5:03:00 pm

mitch...

there is no and never has been a lower interest level at this site for mac users than pc users. ron is enaging you in a longer discussion of this point, but the bottom line is that there is no difference.

i have the q function in my list of to-do's. i do not work at the cow full-time, and so unfortunatley, there is a bit of a lag time sometimes when certain os or browser upgrades break functionality.

it should be resolved this week. in the interim, please let's just end the discussion of a "pc bias" at the cow because it's just not there.

sitruc


Curtis Thompson
Technical Director
Creative Cow


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Mitch Ives
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 16, 2005 at 5:36:51 pm

[Curtis Thompson] "mitch...

there is no and never has been a lower interest level at this site for mac users than pc users. ron is enaging you in a longer discussion of this point, but the bottom line is that there is no difference.

i have the q function in my list of to-do's. i do not work at the cow full-time, and so unfortunatley, there is a bit of a lag time sometimes when certain os or browser upgrades break functionality.

it should be resolved this week. in the interim, please let's just end the discussion of a "pc bias" at the cow because it's just not there. "


Curtis, I've reread my posts. At no time did I ever indicate that I thought there was a preference for PC over Macs on the COW (just look at all the Mac program based forums). The COW like many businesses use PCs on the development side of the site. This is a fact, but doesn't need to be a point of contention.

I do think users of any site should point out when something isn't working right on the Mac (or PC), in case it hasn't been seen by the coders. This is the same on any other sites. On our sites, we get emails on problems with PC IE as well. It's called communication. In the case of the "Q" function, it's been broken since 10.3.8 or 10.3.9. I waited a few weeks figuring it would be discovered... then wondered if anyone had pointed this out yet, so I mentioned it at NAB. It's not the end of the world, we all have FireFox to use (though it suffers from ongoing security problems). At the same time, to be fair, this is not the first time we've experienced this problem, so it's not like Safari users are hypersensitive. I also know that it's been a pain for you to have to fix it more than once.

Returning to the actual topic of this thread... which was about a Dashboard Widget for OSX 10.4. My point was dropping everything to develop a Dashboard Widget isn't going to be a priority for a lot of companies, the COW included... nor should we expect it to be... at least not until they are universal on both platforms. That was the topic of this thread and the point of my post.

I never used the word preference or bias, but it appears that when refering to the operations side of the COW, someone took that to mean I was insinuating that there was a preference. Perhaps I should have been more specific... but it also appears that there might be some sensitivity in that area that I managed to brush up against.



Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Mitch Ives
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 16, 2005 at 5:37:56 pm

Curtis,

Forgot to thank you for working on the "Q" function. Didn't want you to think your efforts aren't noticed or appreciated...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Curtis Thompson
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 16, 2005 at 5:47:32 pm

hello...

thanks and thank you for your patience - i'll address the q deal this week and i should be getting tiger soon enough so i can research a dashboard widget then.... :-)

sitruc


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Ron Lindeboom
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 16, 2005 at 5:41:14 pm


[Mitch Ives] "You may not remember Ron, but that wouldn't alter the facts. We've had conversations at DV Expo and NAB. I learned that other than you and Kathlyn everyone else is using a PC. The post right before yours from Kathlyn would seem to support that point. At this year's NAB I asked the tech in your booth (before you arrived) about the "Q" function being broken again and his response was "I don't know, I only use PC's". I don't see my post as something to be defensive about, it just explains the ongoing "Q" issue, and suggests that development of a Mac Widget would probably be a low priority."


Hi Mitch,

I remember you quite well, thank you. But what I still do not remember is even remotely insinuating that we are a PC-sentric site. We try very hard to be balanced and while Kathlyn and I use Macs, predominantly -- Eric (whom you spoke to at NAB) uses PCs and Curtis uses both Macs and PCs. So the preponderance of bias (if there were one, which there isn't), would be more readily made for a Mac bias.

The balance of the team are Linux-based and mostly are there for security and overall sys admin functions and so if it were up to them, we'd all likely be open-source and commandline. They are hardly what you might call "PC cnetric."

So, final score on the Cow's interface and development team:
  • Mac users: 2-1/2
  • PC users: 1-1/2

If we have failed to inform people of a broken "Q" function, our apologies -- it's just that we are quite a small group trying to do many, many things and the fact is, things get dropped all the time. (It's the nature of trying to do this big an operation with such a limited amount of resources.)

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom


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Mitch Ives
Re: Widget to browse forums
on May 16, 2005 at 6:08:56 pm

Ron, Kathlyn, Curtis, et al,

Boy, talk about a thread taking on a life of it's own and getting way too much attention!

I hope from my posts that this is clear by now, but if not, let me apologize and put this to rest. I never meant to insinuate that there was any bias. I've always liked the COW because I always felt it wasn't biased. Mac users are probably happier here than on any other forums. Yes, we've had repeated issues with the "Q" function in Safari, but it's a small issue, these are not the COW's fault, and we're grateful when it's fixed. Yes, I know that Safari is just one browser, and I've never felt that you were responsible for dropping evverything and fixing issues with it. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not happy when you do fix it.

It's clear my initial post was too brief and not specific enough. I thought asking for a Widget was a stretch (though it sounds like fun). What I should have said was "given that they are trying to find the time and resources to keep up with the changes in Safari, a widget is unlikely". Hindsight is 20/20. If there ever is a widget, that would be icing on the cake, but not something I'd expect you to put effort into given the demands on your resources.

The comment about the coding side being PC (although it appears to be Linux as well now) was that the coders don't always notice when Macs are experiencing problems, nor do we know if they have equipment to test for it. In my experience PC users tend to use the Mac reluctantly, at least in our companies (you'd think we were sending them to their room without supper). In the future, I will send an email to Curtis (since he has both) whenever I expereince an issue and not wait for someone to discover it.

As for your mix of OS at the COW, that's pretty common these days, and I expect Linux to continue to grow. I also forgot that Curtis works part time. Given the explosion in the number of new forums, I'm sure you have competiting priorities. The bad news is, there's probably no relief in site for you. The good news is it means you're thriving.

Good luck with your interface changes... a task I'm sure will provide many challenges.

(still laughing about the Linux and command line reference... we have those here as well)

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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