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Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity

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Jeff Baker
Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 14, 2006 at 7:30:14 pm

Ouch my brain hurts. After looking at the various tutorials and examples of deinterlacing with Fieldskit/Twixtor/RSMB combinations I have ended up more confused than when I started.

I have an hour long DV 4:3 NSTC 30i project that I edited in Premiere Pro 1.5 and now need to de-interlace to 24p for DVD progressive scan viewing thru a projector for an audience screening this weekend.

My needs are:
1. To keep renders to a minimum since I am working with DV source material.
2. Get a clean a smooth 24P DVD from this production quality (but handheld) footage (some pans and jerkiness ocassionally).
3. I don't have time to deinterlace scene by scene so I have to go with best overall all workflow.

I have made few different versions of this 24p project by Frameserving from premiere using a thrid party application or by exporting and microsoft DV codec .avi version of the movie to disk and working with that (at the cost of a render before de-interlacing).

I have tried a few diffent 24P conversion methods including:
Magic bullets software (took over 100 hours to render on my 3.2EE cpu)and using the Sony Vegas 6 de-interlace workflow to 24p DVD. So far the Sony Vegas Method looks the best (Import footage into 23.976 project and convert to mpeg2 24p with 2-3 pulldown flags inserted).

But with Fieldskit I get confused partly because the newer versions of the plugins have changed the workflow for some of the tutorials on this subject on creative cow (Twixtor does not have and frame output setting anymore for instance).

So what I've done is export the footage for Premier Pro to a 30i .avi file which I brought into Adobe After Efects version 7.0.
I then created a 59.94 comp and created the 60p file using the marco solorio tutorial example settings. Now I guess I need to take the resulting file and render it again with twixtor but here is the thing:

Due to a technical glitch I have 2 60p footage files in my AE project in one 29.976 comp, so layer 2 and layer 3 (just 2 parts of the same movie cut together in AE because I could not export the whole timeline from premiere in one part without it crashing).

So I added an adjustment layer (layer 1) to apply the Twixtor effect. Now is the way to do it, or should I apply Twixtor to each footage layer?

Then do I set a little motion blur compensation in twixtor or should I us RSMB instead.

Should I export to a .avi file again or try and use the AE mpeg2 export settings to create the 24p dvd file?

I am currently rendering to a 24p .avi file using the adjustment layer method mentioned above with my fingers crossed that it will work in time for saturday nights show (which by the way is at the film arts foundation in San Francisco if anyone in the area wants to see the results).




Jeff Baker
Three Geese Productions
Oakland CA
http://www.threegeese.com


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Pierre Jasmin
Re: Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 15, 2006 at 1:35:29 am


Some of your answers:

"Then do I set a little motion blur compensation in twixtor or should I us RSMB instead."


If you are in a rush, do it with Twixtor, will save some time

"I get confused partly because the newer versions of the plugins have changed the workflow for some of the tutorials on this subject on creative cow (Twixtor does not have and frame output setting anymore for instance)."

That's because we simply conform to AE comp settings (before you had to retype the same value)

"I am currently rendering to a 24p .avi file using the adjustment layer method"

Safer with a solid then an adjustment layer in AE7 (new AE bug). Make sure it works.

That said if all you need to do is to change the frame rate (from 29.97 lower field to 24 P):
Load the Premiere project in AE, change the comp settings to 24 (or probably 23.978). Then on the top layer apply Twixtor with the proper settings. Copy the effect. Select all layers, paste the effect. Render at 24 (or is it 23.978) and go have a couple of beers. :)

Pierre





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Jeff Baker
Re: Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 15, 2006 at 2:13:06 am

Thanks P.
I had so many files in the Premeire project that it did not import well into After Efftects, but that is good to know for next time as I had forgot that work flow alternative. Do you think Dynamic Link could be used somehow with a pluging like twixtor in the new Adobe Production Studio product? Probably not since it only works with importing or creating comps I guess.

The current twixtor render of 104029 frames is about 50% done and has about 10 hours to go. In other words, thats a lot of beers... But much fewer than with magic bullet! This is with a dual core opteron overclocked and water cooled with 2GB of ram.

-Jeff

Jeff Baker
Three Geese Productions
Oakland CA
http://www.threegeese.com


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Pierre Jasmin
Re: Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 15, 2006 at 8:41:25 pm


I have no idea about the dynamic link thing. I think you can render an AE project on the Premiere timeline, I am not sure if you can save a 29.97i Premiere project, load it in AE, apply Twixtor, and then run that AE project in a 24P Premiere project. The best way to save time might be to have multiple machines to render the AE project on. I think there is a way to split and combine a Quicktime render now as well when you do that.

Pierre


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Jeff Baker
Re: Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 15, 2006 at 11:00:02 pm

Yes creating a render farm has been a bane of my production setup for a long time and I really need to figure it our for these long projects.

If I brought a premere 30i lower field timeline in AE, could I apply fieldskit de-interacer to it by adding a solid above all the layers and export a 60p like you mentioned above with twixtor?

The experiment where I exported a 60p .avi and imported it into a Sony Vegas 6.0 23.976 project and exported to 24P DVD with 2-3 pulldown flags inserted, worked very well by the way, even most of the hand held pans in the footage de-interlaced well.

The only problem is since I did not de-interlace on a scene by scene basis, sometime hard cuts seem to get a little screwed up and look strange. Also the titles and credits are a little jittery.

Jeff Baker
Three Geese Productions
Oakland CA
http://www.threegeese.com


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Pierre Jasmin
Re: Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 17, 2006 at 6:23:45 pm


You can apply on a solid to the Layer pointed by the Source Layer Parameter in FieldsKit.

"The only problem is since I did not de-interlace on a scene by scene basis, sometime hard cuts seem to get a little screwed up and look strange. Also the titles and credits are a little jittery."

Yup, neither have an Auto cut mode right now. in Twixtor you have to animate the "Mark Segments" menu to avoid the possible twirly effect at cuts in the action (when it suddenly tries to estimate a middle frame between two completely different images).
And as well titles and credits (larger flat - no texture objects) are maybe best rerendered.

Pierre


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Jeff Baker
Re: Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 24, 2006 at 10:24:44 pm

I thought I would try installing fields kit into the Premiere Pro plugins folder, but I can't find any documentation on what options can use in Premiere.

If I want to output to 59.94 for instance would I have to copy my 30i footage into a 59.94 premiere project same as AE?

Since this is a large 30i project (90 mins), sould I just output a blended 30p fieldskit version instead and then run twixtor on it in AE (I think I will do the twixtor part in AE just to be safe).

When I apply fieldskit in Premeire, the entire monitor window turns red. Not the red X like faid registration, just a red tint. Output seems okay though.

I did not get a manual with the fieldskit software download so where do I find one?


Jeff Baker
Three Geese Productions
Oakland CA
http://www.threegeese.com


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Pierre Jasmin
Re: Need 30i to 24p Premiere/AE Clarity
on Apr 29, 2006 at 8:05:58 pm


Sorry we were at NAB

* Is the monitor view 100% when you get a red frame?

* Put plug-ins in C:Program FilesAdobeAdobe Premiere Pro 2.0Plug-insCommonAEFilters
if this is your question

* Don't use Blend Field mode if you are going to apply Twixtor after that

Pierre




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