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Particular 2 and tracked footage

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Brandon Morris
Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 27, 2011 at 12:10:38 am



How do I make something like?
Are there any tutorials anywhere about using Particular 2 with tracked footage in 3d space?
Like the rain cloud or rainbow streaklet?

Brandon Morris
http://www.brandonmorris.com

Canon T2i
13" Macbook Pro (Mid 09) 8GB RAM 10.6



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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 2:41:52 pm

I'm not sure about the tutorials but I must say, now that you've shown this, I am also interested. That was really neat the way it was done, particularly the cloud with the little guys falling to the ground and scurrying off.

The rainbow thing was tracked incredibly well. I'd like to know how this was done as well.

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 3:00:18 pm

This is really more matchmoving than anything else. You need to track the 2d footage with a 3d matchmover like pfhoe, syntheyes or boujou and then import that solution into AE. The matchmover will allow you to export a file to import into AE which will contain the 3d camera data. Then, just establish your scene geometry with planes, using the established 3d track points as refrences and set up particular with the emitter in 3d space. It sounds a bit more complex than it is. You need to find tutorials on matchmoving. Try searching for matchmoving tuts, or go to the websites of matchmoving software and you should find some tutorials there. I hope this helps.

Also, the foundry has put out a matchmover for use inside AE. I believe it is called camera tracker or something like that. I understand it works pretty well. You may wish to give that a look.


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 3:06:00 pm

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the comments. I'm sure the other gentleman will also appreciate. I had considered the Foundry's Camera Tracker as a solution as well. I do have it and it is fantastic. There is actually a review on the COW by one of your good folks.

The learning point then for me is this setting the emitter to 3D in Particular comment that you made. I am not sure I've seen anyone discuss that before in any tutorials.

By the way, I have seen most of your tutorials and they have been very helpful on multiple occasions. Appreciate it.

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 3:36:55 pm

Cool. The best way to really visualize and control the 3d emitter in Particular is to link it to a 3d null via the picwip. Then you just need to animate the null in 3d space, which is much easier since all 3 axis are controlled at the same place. Alt click the stopwatch of the xy emitter position and picwip it to the null position. Next, alt click the z emitter position and picwip it to the z parameter of the null position. Then, simply animate the null in 3d space and the emitter should track it perfectly.


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 5:26:00 pm

Mike,

Thanks. I read one post out of sequence, oops. This sounds great. I appreciate the description on how to do this. I am looking forward to giving this a shot.

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Brandon Morris
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 3:13:53 pm

I have read about that type of process, it does sound harder than it is. Can't wait to look up those tutorials to get closer to this! Are there any tutorials on Particular with 3d camera tracker?

Brandon Morris
http://www.brandonmorris.com

Canon T2i
13" Macbook Pro (Mid 09) 8GB RAM 10.6



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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 3:40:17 pm

Dare i say it...try videocopilot. I think Kramer did a tut on using the Foundry camera tracker and then using particular for some clouds. Check that out. The hard part is the 3d tracking. since particular is already 3d by nature, it will perfectly fit the scene and camera move, assuming it is tracked correctly.


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2011 at 4:42:15 pm

Mike,

Yes, you dare say. :) I love Andrew's tutorials. I did watch the one you are probably thinking of with the pass thru the mountain pass that he used as part of the Demon Cam movie.

I pretty much understand that premise, just never tracked anything that included particular. And THAT sounds pretty cool.

It would actually be nice to see a tutorial specific to motion tracking a particular layer.

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 5:10:53 pm

Here's a link to a 3D tracked/matchmove routine involving Trapcode Particular -
http://www.broadcastgems.com/MediaServer01/TrackingTest_PavementLeaves_01.m...

I used The Foundry's AE Camera Tracker plugin which does 3D tracking/matchmoving. The thing about tracking a scene with such a software is that you end up with a virtual camera in AE that actually mimics the movements of the real world camera. Therefore, once you have completed a successful track, any 3D layer that you insert into the composition will be affected by the actual scene's camera movement.

All I did after my 3D track was to link my Particular layer to a Light Emitter (which is as easy as a click away in Particular). Then I animated the light layer using the scene as a visual cue and the virtual camera to guide me in terms of what things will actually look like when rendered in AE. IOW, a good eyeball in AE's Active Camera view did most of the job.

BTW, folks here should check out Michael's Trapcode Particular DVD Training series.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Asia.


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 5:21:07 pm

Hi Roland,

Just a follow up. So, you tracked, got your 3D data/camera, etc.

Now, when you say you then animated your particular layer with an emitter, got that too but where did you place the 3D tracking data?

I feel like I missed something in the middle there.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 5:34:49 pm

Hi Erik, when the 3D track is complete, you not only have a virtual camera that mimics the actual camera movements but you also get a 'point cloud'. A 'point cloud' is a 3D tracking lingo that describes areas that have been successfully tracked by the software.

You then select a point (a point cloud is just may points - hence the term cloud) from which you can create a 3D Solid or a 3D Null. Layers that you then attach to the Solid or Null will then be part of the scene - just like the point and point clouds - they are all part of the virtual camera's scene.

You should check out The Foundry's Camera Tracker - it has a 15-day free trial.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Asia.


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 8:03:39 pm

Roland,

Thanks. I think we are just about there. :)

I actually have the camera tracker. I love it!

The part I am missing is when you select the point, establish the null (to the cloud), what are you then pic-whipping to the null?

What's confusing me is you mentioned animating your particular layer using your light emitter but then I am not seeing where it is using the tracking null.

Are you then whipping the particular layer position to the tracker null?

Appreciate it.

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 9:11:24 pm

OK Eric,
I will jump back in now, lol. What Roland meant was that the camera tracker will not only give you a 3d camera with appropriate movement, but it will also give you a point cloud which represents different points in 3d space which correspond to objects in your scene. You can then use (as in Roland's example) the position of one of those points to line up and place your light emitter for particular. For example, if you tracked a scene where you are walking along a sidewalk and want a cloud to go infront of you, you probably have some track points on the ground. On the first frame, pick a point and copy its position. Paste that position to the position of your light and then move it up to where you want it. Then, simply click the stopwatch to set a keyframe and scrub down in time and animate the light, which is the emitter for the particles. I hope this makes sense. If not, show me the footage you are working with and tell me what exactly you are trying to do and I will record a tutorial just for you and put it up here.

Best,
Mike


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 9:44:21 pm

Hi Mike,

I thank you for coming back to this. You described it very well (I think). Of couse any tutorial is helpful, even it it only focused in directly where you begin keyframing the emitter light.

If I understand, what you are saying then is that the first keyframe, you copy its position from the 3D tracking data and paste to the light. So, that makes the light emitter "tracked" and if left alone, should stay in position relative to the ground.

THEN, all subsequent keyframes are further animating the emitter and thus your particle layer.

So, the single first keyframe is your only tie to the 3D tracking data? Is that about right?

Sorry for all the questions.

As for a video, I guess any short pan down a sidewalk would be fine. I just want to learn how so I can do it.

I did attach a video but might be more complex since it has a moving object in the video.

3004_carsamplekirk59.94fps.wmv.zip

In the cloud example, let's say we wanted a cloud to follow the chrome bumper or something shown in this vid.

I can shoot a quick easier video if necessary that just pans across a room or something.



Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 9:53:28 pm

Eric,

That is going to be a nightmare to track if you want the motion of the camera to match the ground. Almost all of the shot is the car. Is there any other video you would like tracked?


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 9:58:23 pm

Mike,

Yeah i figured. Lol

I will take something easier and get it up in a bit.

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 11:31:30 pm

OK Mike,

Here you go, something easier I hope. lol

3006_samplevidkirk.wmv.zip

I sincerely appreciate your help.

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 11:59:54 pm

What is it you would like to see as particles in this shot?


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 28, 2012 at 6:37:36 pm

Michael,

You will probably see my post today on this subject in which you and I actually discussed it a year ago. Basically, what you describe here is pretty much what I want to do except I don't want the particle cloud to follow me, I'd like it to stay where I place it relative to the scene.

Could you do a short tutorial that shows the process of injecting particular in to tracked scene? My post from today has more info.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 29, 2011 at 9:12:00 pm

Thanks for the endorsement on the training vid!


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 30, 2011 at 12:07:53 am

Mike,

It doesn't matter too much but preferably a particle system that has some movement to see the true reaction. So, perhaps a cloud or or other thing that changes shape some.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 30, 2011 at 3:14:45 am

You may need to give it a few minutes to upload
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9794600/Eric%20Particles.mp4


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 30, 2011 at 12:05:10 pm

Hi Mike,

I appreciate the link. I am very excited to see it, however I can't download it at work through that link (blocked).

The regular zip ones seem to download.

It's going to be a long day now. :)

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Sep 30, 2011 at 7:13:11 pm

Mike,

I finally saw it. Excellent tutorial and thanks again.

It is exactly what I need to know and about as I envisioned too which is nice.

My daughter had already taken out the Halloween stuff so that's why the dead guy was in the chair. Wasn't even a prop. :)

Thanks,
Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Oct 4, 2011 at 3:54:43 am

Apologies for coming back so late. I didn't receive any email from the COW on this thread, so I thought postings had ended. I'm glad to hear that all is well.

Cheers
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Asia.


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Eric Kirk
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Oct 4, 2011 at 10:33:15 pm

Roland,

Thanks for checking back. Appreciate your help as well as Mike's.

I believe he also thanked you for the plug for his training DVDs. :)

Eric

Eric D. Kirk
http://www.kirkproductions.com


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Oct 5, 2011 at 12:01:01 pm

Hi Eric, I'm glad it's working out for you. FWIW, I don't pickwhip to create any parent-child relationship between the light emitter (for Particular) and the points created by the track.

After creating a Null or a Solid from one of the tracked points, I immediately remove its default parenting relationship. I then copy the Null/Solid's position and rotation data and paste it onto the light emitter or any other layer that I want to introduce into the scene.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive AE & Mocha Training in Singapore and Malaysia.


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Brandon Morris
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Feb 10, 2012 at 4:36:48 pm

Foundry Camera Tracker is amazing and was definitely the step I needed answered.

My other question is, besides using a 3D program, is it possible to have Particular create 2 ribbons flowing down the street to tracked footage? So instead of the rainbow streaklet, there would be two ribbons flowing around each other down the street.

Brandon Morris
Co-owner/Creative Director
http://www.fugostudios.com

RED Scarlet, Canon T2i, Panasonic HPX-170
Nikon Primes
Mac Pro 12-core 64GB RAM (2011)
Mac Pro 8-core 12GB RAM (2008)
Mac Pro 4-core 8GB RAM (2006)
13" Macbook Pro (Mid 09) 8GB RAM Lion


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Mike Park
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Feb 10, 2012 at 4:55:35 pm

Yes. Assuming you have a 3d match moved camera in After Effects. Seeing you said you had camera tracker, I assume you do. You can create the ribbons by using particles and turning on the shadow effects in particular 2.


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Brandon Morris
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Feb 10, 2012 at 5:31:29 pm

But I can't seem to figure out how to make a solid ribbon

Brandon Morris
Co-owner/Creative Director
http://www.fugostudios.com

RED Scarlet, Canon T2i, Panasonic HPX-170
Nikon Primes
Mac Pro 12-core 64GB RAM (2011)
Mac Pro 8-core 12GB RAM (2008)
Mac Pro 4-core 8GB RAM (2006)
13" Macbook Pro (Mid 09) 8GB RAM Lion


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Reuben Fink
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Oct 14, 2013 at 7:00:34 pm

All these comments are super helpful. One additional question. After creating a proper track and you've added particular into the scene how would you suggest adding shadows to a ground plane without having the ground plain visible. Is there a way to just retain the shadow showing the source image underneath?

OSX 10.8.4
Equipment: 2.8 ghz 8 core Intal Mac Pro 3,1 Early 2008, 20 gig of ram
Aps: CS6 Production Premium, FCP Suite, Avid Media Composer


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Particular 2 and tracked footage
on Oct 16, 2013 at 7:18:00 am

A White Solid is used as a 'shadow catcher' layer. As with other 3D Layers, the Shadow Catcher has Material Options properties. There is a Cast Shadow property which can be set to Only (as well as On or Off). When set to Only, only shadows will be seen on this layer.

You can see this in action when you perform a 3D Camera Track in AE and select the create shadow options after you have successfully the tracked a piece of footage.

HTH
RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE/ACI


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